Rebooting Dragon Ball as a Whole

[Winter]

I talked about an idea of rebooting Dragon Ball GT a while back as I felt the series had a lot of good concepts just poorly executed but recently I saw Totally Not Mark and his review of the OG Dragon Ball and the scene where he asked Team 4 Star to create a scene where Goku Meets Mr. Popo or rather the Abridged version of Popo which made me REALLY hope that one day T4S makes an abridged series of the OG Dragon Ball.

I know they said they're never making a full abridged of anything past the Cell Saga but I think it would they never said anything about DB classic flavor.

Anyways that got me thinking, Dragon Ball as a whole is a series is interesting to look at as a whole as there was never any real plan for it. Akira Toriyama had intended the series to be a done in one series, Goku and co. hunted for the Dragon Balls, found the Dragon Balls and thwarted the villains by one of the heroes wishing for Panties. But then the series turned into the energizer bunny as it just kept going and going and going and nothing could stop it.

I've often lamented the poor planning of the Star Wars Disney Sequel Trilogy, that they clearly had no idea where everything was going and was just making it up as they went. But I've also mentioned that this isn't a bad thing as that's what Lucas did throughout most of his series.

Dragon Ball is a great example that sometimes you really can just make things up as you go as there was no plan for this series. But there is that downside, the fact that ideas that were planted got reworked due to executive meddling or Toriyama just getting a new idea that popped in his head.

The Android arc is perhaps the best example, Toriyama had from what I understand, has no plans to include any other Androids besides Doctor Gero and Android 19 and as far as I know there was no Cell. But I honestly still can't tell that's the case because the show does a really good job, IMO, tying these different characters and threats together, helped by the use of Future Trunks who's just as shocked to see these changes as we are.

But the lack of foreshadowing to these antagonists still hurts the stories and there are other things that hurt the series by the lack of planning. Gohan being set up as the main protagonist only for Goku to take back the title, the various gods that are the strongest of all only to be replaced by other Gods who are even stronger. Super Saiyan 1, 2, 3 and 4, Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue and worst of all IMO, the ending of Goku Black Arc.

There are so many times this series was hurt by the inclusion of these bits that hurt a lot more with hindsight.

Thus we return to Dragon Ball Z Abridged. While starting off as a simple parody of the series overtime DBZA turned into more of an overall adaptation of the series instead of just a parody of it. As such T4S where able to take advantage that they knew where the series was going to help bolster the story up. Making small changes that had a big impact that overall benefited the story of the series.

Things like Gohan's arc being more defined and fleshed out by giving him daddy issues, Vegeta being a jackass throughout most of the series and toning down his more noble elements which makes his turn to the side of the heroes feel more earned and natural. Giving Androids 17, 18 and 16 more depth, fleshing out Gero's backstory by retconning it so he hates Goku for the death of his son whom 16 is modeled after which is just brilliant. Not to mention making Cell more charismatic and a bit of a show man, introducing the idea of Multiverse in the Cell Saga, foreshadowing or mentioned events of Super and GT with mention of Beerus, completely altering the ending of World's Strongest and so on.

While T4S has stated, multiple times, that they do not wish they series to be viewed as better then the series they all love it's impossible to not notice how they improved the series WHILE remaining loyal to the story of the original series.

I think it would be interesting if someone was to reboot the series and follow a similar mindset of DBZA. Remain loyal to the original but take the time to improve it in a number of minor and major ways. Just a few ideas in how to improve that, give Chichi more to due after she marries Goku like we see her fighting alongside the rest of the Z Fighters in the Saiyan invasion, maybe even have her be one of the characters who dies there or helps the others in the defeat of Vegeta. Speaking of which give Vidal more to do in the Buu arc instead.

On that note, make 2 different arcs for DBZ, one that focused on Gohan and him saving the world from Fat Buu and Super Buu and then a different one that is about Goku and Vegeta returning and dealing to Kid.

Foreshadow that Goku is an alien a little earlier WITHOUT overdoing it. Maybe even keep Saiyan tale and change how a Saiyan becomes the Oozaru as it's such an iconic part of Goku's design. Find a way to.

There's so much that can be done to improve the series without erasing what made it work.

Thoughts?

[CharlesPhipps]

I dunno, it's such a series intrically tied with its creator that I'm not sure how you could.

[Winter]

I dunno, it's such a series intrically tied with its creator that I'm not sure how you could.

If Team Four Star can pull it off I don't see why someone else can't. And with the series still ongoing after Toriyama's tragic death (Rest in Piece man we miss you) not to mention that GT was made largely without Toriyama's involvement or that many of the movies were made without him I don't think that sentiment holds true.

Hell, one of the most popular characters in the series, Broly, wasn't made by Toriyama but one of the movie creators. In fact it could be argued that Toriyama took a lot of inspiration from the films and anime like transformation. While transformations was always a thing in Dragon Ball the nature of a character transforming yet retaining their personality and mind can be traced back to the Dead Zone with Garlic Jr.

Now I will not argue that without Toriyama that the series will lose something special and that he added something that made the series work. Broly, for example, was a much stronger character when Toriyama reworked the character, ditching everything that didn't work about the character and sticking with what fans did like about him and making him uniquely Toriyama's Broly.

But I think a reboot can work it just needs people who understand the series, understood Toriyama and can make it all come together in a way that feels like a labor of love.

Again DBZA did this wonderfully and if a bunch of fans can improve the story with just a bit of editing, fan dubbing and a few bits of their own original animation then it could be argued that something similar can be done by a professional studio.

[McAvoy]

Team Four Star had the benefit of coming out years after the last dubbed episode of Dragonball Z came out. Which means multiple rewatches, fan discussions done to death whether that was scene analysis, theory and what ifs. They also had the time to craft each episode and even they changed things as they went along. Nothing major really.

I honestly don't where or how to start in rebooting Dragonball. Except with prettier animation when it came to the early stuff.

Perhaps I could redo the Buu saga since that's a mess. Super is a big time mess that has been discussed but would deserve it's own thread.

[Winter]

Team Four Star had the benefit of coming out years after the last dubbed episode of Dragonball Z came out. Which means multiple rewatches, fan discussions done to death whether that was scene analysis, theory and what ifs. They also had the time to craft each episode and even they changed things as they went along. Nothing major really.

I honestly don't where or how to start in rebooting Dragonball. Except with prettier animation when it came to the early stuff.

Perhaps I could redo the Buu saga since that's a mess. Super is a big time mess that has been discussed but would deserve it's own thread.

Well, one things for certain no matter how this hypothetical reboot would turn out it would have to be better the Dragon Ball Evolution purely by default.

As for how to reboot it, well one thing that comes to my mind is making the whole thing a lot tighter in pacing. Let's be honest Dragon Ball has got a LOT of filler, something even T4S wasn't able to really get around. And when you cut down on all that filler the story is surprisingly short. At least 3 of Super's movies are adaptations of arcs from the manga and they were pretty well paced.

I think of the DB movie Path to Power which adapted the Pilaf and Red Ribbon army arc and found that film pretty enjoyable so one thing that could be done is shorten the runtime and only focus on the stories that are about the plot and character develop.

Not a movie series with a combination of different story arcs but maybe a shorter number of episodes. Like Season 1 of DBZ has about 39 episodes and that could easily be shortened down to 20 or even 15. This gives most of the cast more then enough time to have their arcs and moments of awesome while making sure that the focus can remain on Goku and later Gohan.

Still I do agree that this would be hard to adapt and getting the wrong people onboard who have little understanding of this series and questioning how much time they're given to make this show.

Personally if given the power to do so I would hire Team 4 Star themselves and give them all the time and money they needed to make the series however they wanted.

[Thebestoftherest]

I do wonder how much can you change until it no longer Dragon ball?

[McAvoy]

I do wonder how much can you change until it no longer Dragon ball?

Me too. Short of updating the animation like Super has done in some flashbacks, what would you change?

Same story? What you add or take away? Or alter?

[Winter]

I do wonder how much can you change until it no longer Dragon ball?

Me too. Short of updating the animation like Super has done in some flashbacks, what would you change?

Same story? What you add or take away? Or alter?

Since I started this conversation I'll share my thoughts on what could be changed vs. what would remain the same.

The series would remain mostly the same, with updated animation but would include foreshadowing of major events and utilized the supporting cast more. Like hints of the Red Ribbon Army and King Piccolo before they show up and have Chichi show up a bit earlier before the Piccolo Jr. Arc to give her and Goku more time to develop their relationship. Not to much, this wouldn't become a romance series but just a little more time.

For DBZ I would give Chichi a more active role in the plot, have her be involved in defeating Vegeta alongside Krillin, Gohan and Yajirobe after her husband is wounded. The Namek arc would remain the same only have the Ginyu Force appear earlier and make them a more active force throughout the first half of the arc. Also, for the love of God Give Bulma SOMETHING to do in this arc, the girl just sits around doing nothing of note throughout this arc. Let her find a Dragon Ball, hint at her future relationship with Vegeta something.

The Cell Arc, pretty much what T4S did here as they really just made the PERFECT adaptation for this story. Chief Kisses all around.

As for Super and GT, not sure if I would want to adapt the series as a whole but I can think of one story arc I would want to do a full rewrite of which would be the Goku Black Arc. Just full on rewrite, no inclusion from the Z Fighters, No Rocks Fall everybody dies ending, no traveling back in time to so Future Trunks and Mai have to live alongside alternate versions of themselves. Just a simple story of Trunks stopping a new threat to his world, he stops it and done.

One way or another Dragon Ball is going to get a reboot, this franchise is just to profitable to not do it and Japan shows and films are no different from that then we are.

But anyone doing so will have the benefit of knowing where the plot is going and what mistakes where made before so they can have a chance to avoid those issues.

[Nobody700]

I been writing my own rewrites of Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, one of the main ideas I have is to keep Z in the style of DB, add more character development for everyone, stick to the action comedy, and expand on details. One of my main goals have been making the films canon and that was super fun and actually easy if you just... mold some things around. Like Tree of Might is now a story where Gohan and the gang, on the way to Namek, crash on a planet run by Turles, a saiyan who wants to make Gohan his prince as he plans to become an intergalactic warlord. Or Lord Slug is now a Piccolo film set between Freiza arc and before Goku returns to Earth, where Piccolo must lead the Z fighters to defeat the most evil and powerful Namekian in the universe, a Namekian on the same power level of Frieza.

[clearspira]

I do wonder how much can you change until it no longer Dragon ball?

Me too. Short of updating the animation like Super has done in some flashbacks, what would you change?

Same story? What you add or take away? Or alter?

Since I started this conversation I'll share my thoughts on what could be changed vs. what would remain the same.

The series would remain mostly the same, with updated animation but would include foreshadowing of major events and utilized the supporting cast more. Like hints of the Red Ribbon Army and King Piccolo before they show up and have Chichi show up a bit earlier before the Piccolo Jr. Arc to give her and Goku more time to develop their relationship. Not to much, this wouldn't become a romance series but just a little more time.

For DBZ I would give Chichi a more active role in the plot, have her be involved in defeating Vegeta alongside Krillin, Gohan and Yajirobe after her husband is wounded. The Namek arc would remain the same only have the Ginyu Force appear earlier and make them a more active force throughout the first half of the arc. Also, for the love of God Give Bulma SOMETHING to do in this arc, the girl just sits around doing nothing of note throughout this arc. Let her find a Dragon Ball, hint at her future relationship with Vegeta something.

The Cell Arc, pretty much what T4S did here as they really just made the PERFECT adaptation for this story. Chief Kisses all around.

As for Super and GT, not sure if I would want to adapt the series as a whole but I can think of one story arc I would want to do a full rewrite of which would be the Goku Black Arc. Just full on rewrite, no inclusion from the Z Fighters, No Rocks Fall everybody dies ending, no traveling back in time to so Future Trunks and Mai have to live alongside alternate versions of themselves. Just a simple story of Trunks stopping a new threat to his world, he stops it and done.

One way or another Dragon Ball is going to get a reboot, this franchise is just to profitable to not do it and Japan shows and films are no different from that then we are.

But anyone doing so will have the benefit of knowing where the plot is going and what mistakes where made before so they can have a chance to avoid those issues.

This is one thing that I would absolutely change. That relationship is so POORLY handled mainly because all of the important stuff happens during the timeskip.

He goes from being the main villain of the Saiyan saga, to the secondary villain of the Namek Saga, to Bulma laughing about giving him a pink shirt in what seems like days to a few weeks. She was terrified of him - his very name, the very sight of him, inducing her to shake like an earthquake. Her going from that to doing his laundry is stupidly abrupt. At least Toriyama had the sense to make it clear that Trunks was the result of a stand.

Poor Yamcha too. Yes, he's the whipping boy of the fandom, but Bulma and Yamcha were an on-off couple since the very, very first saga. He deserves more respect than being dumped so easily. In fact - that's the second thing that I would change. The original Dragonball cast needs more respect. They got a reasonably good showing from the Raditz saga to the start of the Android saga but after that? They are so damn overshadowed by the Saiyans that it is embarrassing. And every time the OG DB cast has a brush with competence or an extreme power up (for example Piccolo fusing with Kami) it is undone within a few episodes.