From TMP to Insurrection. Overall well regards for The Motion Picture, Search for Spock, Final Frontier, Generations, or Insurrection. Bonus points for negative regards for Trek '09 and Beyond.
Giggidy go.
What you like about the "odd number" Trek films
-
BridgeConsoleMasher
- Overlord
- Posts: 11637
- Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:18 am
What you like about the "odd number" Trek films
..What mirror universe?
-
Yukaphile
- Overlord
- Posts: 8778
- Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:14 am
- Location: Rabid Posting World
- Contact:
Re: What you like about the "odd number" Trek films
Search for Spock is easily my favorite of the odd-numbers. I love the scene where they stole the Enterprise. The music REALLY makes it feel epic. The others? Um... it's been years since I saw TMP, so... no idea. For Final Frontier? Well, as degrading as it was, I do kind of have a soft spot for the Uhura fandance. No, seriously. Have a yuuuuuuuuge thing for black women, and once you've gone black, you never go back, baby! Generations? I actually think is a decent movie, same with Insurrection, despite the flaws of the central conflict.
The reboot films? Never watched them. But the aesthetic is all wrong. DS9 got it right when they went back to TOS, and so far they were the ONLY ones to do so. Nuff said.
The reboot films? Never watched them. But the aesthetic is all wrong. DS9 got it right when they went back to TOS, and so far they were the ONLY ones to do so. Nuff said.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
-
Yukaphile
- Overlord
- Posts: 8778
- Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:14 am
- Location: Rabid Posting World
- Contact:
Re: What you like about the "odd number" Trek films
I guess I love how Data can finally feel emotions. It's a great moment that I love. So that would be my favorite moment from Generations. Favorite moment from Insurrection? The final battle. Some great effects by ILM.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
-
MerelyAFan
- Officer
- Posts: 198
- Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:09 am
Re: What you like about the "odd number" Trek films
I do enjoy Spock's arc in TMP, and the aloofness he displays early on makes his genuine embrace with Kirk in sickbay all the more meaningful. With much of the Motion Picture it feels like you could got straight from TOS to WoK without missing much, but the acceptance of the emotional aspect of himself feels like something that enriches the character overall. It has the warmth of character and tight development in writing that TMP lacks it so many other areas.
Re: What you like about the "odd number" Trek films
The TMP soundtrack is really good. I'll sometimes just listen to that in lieu of actually watching the film as generally speaking, it contains more entertainment value.
-
MissKittyFantastico
- Officer
- Posts: 402
- Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:35 am
Re: What you like about the "odd number" Trek films
Yup, that moment with Kirk in sickbay... I really enjoy TMP in general. The visuals are gorgeous, and in the Director's Cut I find they're actually pretty well-paced as well, I get the impact they're conveying, going from the lavish reveal of the Enterprise setting up how magnificent she is, which then plays into the sequence of her flying over V'Ger looking like a toy against this leviathan. I like V'Ger as a whole really, the methodical way its scale and mystery is established, and I like that the entire point is that it needs to be understood, not fought; I feel like there's something fundamentally Trekky about the film being about our heroes rising to a challenge that isn't, ultimately, a foe to be beaten back. Less said about Stephen Collins the better but I do like what Decker throws into the mix, and his fractious relationship with Kirk - it's kind of undercut by him going off to be extradimensional at the end, but I enjoy the feeling of potential in imagining what the planned series might've been like with him as XO, moving past their initial antagonism in the 'pilot' but still having that experience between them. Likewise Ilia, she gets even less to do as 'herself' but what's there was full of possibility. The music's lovely, and I even like sitting through the prelude.
Search for Spock is... fine. I can happily sit through it, but I feel like it's less than the sum of its parts - you've got the Spacedock escape, Kruge being tons of fun as a bad guy, the faceoff in orbit and blowing up the ship, Genesis coming apart, David's death... but somehow it just doesn't come together for me.
Final Frontier, meh - but I do like "What does God need with a starship?" That's such a Kirk thing, that stubbornness to him that just can't let something drop - puts me in mind of 'Errand of Mercy', albeit there it's cast in a more negative light, whereas in this case it's the spanner in the works that saves the day. I feel like that gets as something fundamental about him far more than the whole "I need my pain" notion, so that moment at least I like.
Generations I feel I'm pretty much on board with the general consensus - there were some okay ideas, but the way the whole thing came together just wasn't up to par, and the movie's constantly weakened by the patch jobs it's having to make to keep itself in one piece. Aptly, it seems like time was their enemy - my guess is that you would've got a good Generations by stopping at a certain point in pre-production, taking a long hard look at what's been laid down, and going "Y'know what, this isn't working - let's go back to the drawing board and start fresh," but of course that was impossible with the schedule they had.
Insurrection's an odd one - I genuinely liked it when I saw it, and I still have a lot of affection for its atmosphere, it feels like TNG more than anything else in the movie era. But the more I consider it the more I think it's coming from a place of ignorance about one of the key messages of Trek, that we can reap the rewards of scientific advancement without losing ourselves in the process - as much as not nuking ourselves and hoarding wealth, that we can live rich, fulfilling lives just as well amid all our technological sophistication as we can living in some Luddite village where everything's 'simpler'. That's not to say you can't tell this story about Picard being unfulfilled and discovering himself, but I don't feel like that's the headspace the film's in, and ultimately it leaves me with a 'snooty superior elves' reaction to the Ba'ku.
I subscribe to the Galaxy Quest theory, so the next 'odd-numbered' one is Nemesis, and, well, I got nothing positive to say about Nemesis. I guess I like that Tom Hardy was in Star Trek? Although I've read he doesn't like to talk about it, and I can't blame him.
09, if we're ignoring the Galaxy Quest thing, I liked a lot. It wasn't particularly introspective, and it's held back by having to make its way through the motions of the alternate-timeline concept which doesn't really bring anything to the table in terms of story, besides just being a necessary precondition for the movie to exist, but it's fun and lively, and I thought everyone did a pretty good job of capturing the TOS crew without being caught up in doing impressions (except Karl Urban, who seemed to have just done some kind of dark ritual to possess himself with the ghost of DeForest Kelley throughout).
Into Darkness I feel is kind of what happens when you have the same 'didn't think this through properly beforehand, too late go back and start again now' process that produced Generations, but most of the ideas were bad to begin with.
And I love Beyond.
Search for Spock is... fine. I can happily sit through it, but I feel like it's less than the sum of its parts - you've got the Spacedock escape, Kruge being tons of fun as a bad guy, the faceoff in orbit and blowing up the ship, Genesis coming apart, David's death... but somehow it just doesn't come together for me.
Final Frontier, meh - but I do like "What does God need with a starship?" That's such a Kirk thing, that stubbornness to him that just can't let something drop - puts me in mind of 'Errand of Mercy', albeit there it's cast in a more negative light, whereas in this case it's the spanner in the works that saves the day. I feel like that gets as something fundamental about him far more than the whole "I need my pain" notion, so that moment at least I like.
Generations I feel I'm pretty much on board with the general consensus - there were some okay ideas, but the way the whole thing came together just wasn't up to par, and the movie's constantly weakened by the patch jobs it's having to make to keep itself in one piece. Aptly, it seems like time was their enemy - my guess is that you would've got a good Generations by stopping at a certain point in pre-production, taking a long hard look at what's been laid down, and going "Y'know what, this isn't working - let's go back to the drawing board and start fresh," but of course that was impossible with the schedule they had.
Insurrection's an odd one - I genuinely liked it when I saw it, and I still have a lot of affection for its atmosphere, it feels like TNG more than anything else in the movie era. But the more I consider it the more I think it's coming from a place of ignorance about one of the key messages of Trek, that we can reap the rewards of scientific advancement without losing ourselves in the process - as much as not nuking ourselves and hoarding wealth, that we can live rich, fulfilling lives just as well amid all our technological sophistication as we can living in some Luddite village where everything's 'simpler'. That's not to say you can't tell this story about Picard being unfulfilled and discovering himself, but I don't feel like that's the headspace the film's in, and ultimately it leaves me with a 'snooty superior elves' reaction to the Ba'ku.
I subscribe to the Galaxy Quest theory, so the next 'odd-numbered' one is Nemesis, and, well, I got nothing positive to say about Nemesis. I guess I like that Tom Hardy was in Star Trek? Although I've read he doesn't like to talk about it, and I can't blame him.
09, if we're ignoring the Galaxy Quest thing, I liked a lot. It wasn't particularly introspective, and it's held back by having to make its way through the motions of the alternate-timeline concept which doesn't really bring anything to the table in terms of story, besides just being a necessary precondition for the movie to exist, but it's fun and lively, and I thought everyone did a pretty good job of capturing the TOS crew without being caught up in doing impressions (except Karl Urban, who seemed to have just done some kind of dark ritual to possess himself with the ghost of DeForest Kelley throughout).
Into Darkness I feel is kind of what happens when you have the same 'didn't think this through properly beforehand, too late go back and start again now' process that produced Generations, but most of the ideas were bad to begin with.
And I love Beyond.
-
Darth Wedgius
- Captain
- Posts: 2948
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:43 pm
Re: What you like about the "odd number" Trek films
Star Trek III is one of my two favorites in the films. Stealing the Enterprise, Kirk out-thinking Kruge, McCoy telling an unconscious Spock that he'd missed him... I found a lot to like in the movie.
V had the scene with McCoy's dad. 2009 was a fine sci-fi action movie if that's all that's needed.
V had the scene with McCoy's dad. 2009 was a fine sci-fi action movie if that's all that's needed.
-
Zoinksberg
- Officer
- Posts: 198
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:23 pm
Re: What you like about the "odd number" Trek films
I read the TMP novel, written by Gene himself, before I had seen the film. There is a LOT of detail in that novel that explains things that just aren't explained in the film. So when I watched the movie for the first time all those weird things (ex, Ilia's comment about having a celebacy oath) had simple explanations (Deltan pheromones cause significant lust among other humanoids). So right off the bat it didn't seem as insane to me as it should. Also, I absolutely love the Constitution refit, so those endless shots of the model might turn many off, but for me it is just taking in the beauty of the new Enterprise.
Re: What you like about the "odd number" Trek films
Odd as it may sound I actually do have a soft spot for the comedy from The Final Frontier. Please note I think it's terrible but I still get a laugh out of it despite myself. The visual effects of TMP Are good, nothing to write home about but still good. I actually do like the space battle from Insurrection or, to be more accurate I like the ideas behind it like the bomb releases a tear in reality that will follow you until you are dead or how they use the explosive gas as a weapon.
The scenes between Kirk and Picard in Generations are honestly really good and seeing these two icons play off one another is really quite amazing which is helped by Shatner's and Stewart's fantastic chemistry. And while it may be dull at times Search for Spoke is honestly not that bad and it does tell a pretty good story that could have been great if given a bit more time to cook.
The scenes between Kirk and Picard in Generations are honestly really good and seeing these two icons play off one another is really quite amazing which is helped by Shatner's and Stewart's fantastic chemistry. And while it may be dull at times Search for Spoke is honestly not that bad and it does tell a pretty good story that could have been great if given a bit more time to cook.
-
ChiggyvonRichthofen
- Captain
- Posts: 692
- Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:40 am
Re: What you like about the "odd number" Trek films
The Motion Picture-
Almost every other Trek movie still feels like "tv" in one way or another. Even the Abrams-verse films have the style of a flashy (albeit expensive) popcorn flick with a good number of fast cuts and lens flares. TMP really feels like cinema, and I appreciate that. Really nice production value with the large, detailed models, good effects for the time, good directing, and one of the best film scores of all time. It also has a cerebral mood that I actually do appreciate, sort of Trek's answer to 2001. Unfortunately, when it comes down to it, the story actually isn't all that cerebral, and the characters don't fully feel like themselves.
The Search for Spock-
This movie is actually one of my favorites. Several excellent sequences- the Enterprise's escape, its destruction, Kirk's kicking Kruge off the ledge, several of McCoy's moments, etc. Each character gets a moment to shine. It lags behind the very best of the Trek movies only because it somehow feels like it's less than the sum of its parts.
The Final Frontier-
It's a really bad movie, but I like that the film showcases the camaraderie between the "big three" of TOS. Great score.
Generations-
Sometimes it does feel like a two-part episode, but the film also establishes a nice atmosphere and strong sense of place that was sometimes missing from the lower budget tv series. For example, the lighting in the early scenes outside the Amargosa observatory and the attention paid to color grading and some of those details. I'm a bit of a sucker for some of the sentimentality expressed by the characters and the general message they were going for, but unfortunately a lot of this was undermined by the nonsensical plot.
Insurrection-
One of my least favorites. It mostly doesn't even look that good. Another good score by Goldsmith.
Star Trek '09-
Entertaining and effective in a lot of ways. As a Star Trek movie, I still have my problems with it, but I guess I'm kind of "used" to the movie by now and can detach some of the characters' shenanigans from the original characters i knew and loved. As an action movie it hits the right beats, it's exciting and energetic. Score and performances aren't bad.
Star Trek Beyond-
It''s a good Star Trek movie, in my opinion. Somehow it feels smaller scale than it even should with the stakes that are expressed, but I like seeing these characters finally established and acting more like competent officers. Not a "great" movie, but one I approve of.
Almost every other Trek movie still feels like "tv" in one way or another. Even the Abrams-verse films have the style of a flashy (albeit expensive) popcorn flick with a good number of fast cuts and lens flares. TMP really feels like cinema, and I appreciate that. Really nice production value with the large, detailed models, good effects for the time, good directing, and one of the best film scores of all time. It also has a cerebral mood that I actually do appreciate, sort of Trek's answer to 2001. Unfortunately, when it comes down to it, the story actually isn't all that cerebral, and the characters don't fully feel like themselves.
The Search for Spock-
This movie is actually one of my favorites. Several excellent sequences- the Enterprise's escape, its destruction, Kirk's kicking Kruge off the ledge, several of McCoy's moments, etc. Each character gets a moment to shine. It lags behind the very best of the Trek movies only because it somehow feels like it's less than the sum of its parts.
The Final Frontier-
It's a really bad movie, but I like that the film showcases the camaraderie between the "big three" of TOS. Great score.
Generations-
Sometimes it does feel like a two-part episode, but the film also establishes a nice atmosphere and strong sense of place that was sometimes missing from the lower budget tv series. For example, the lighting in the early scenes outside the Amargosa observatory and the attention paid to color grading and some of those details. I'm a bit of a sucker for some of the sentimentality expressed by the characters and the general message they were going for, but unfortunately a lot of this was undermined by the nonsensical plot.
Insurrection-
One of my least favorites. It mostly doesn't even look that good. Another good score by Goldsmith.
Star Trek '09-
Entertaining and effective in a lot of ways. As a Star Trek movie, I still have my problems with it, but I guess I'm kind of "used" to the movie by now and can detach some of the characters' shenanigans from the original characters i knew and loved. As an action movie it hits the right beats, it's exciting and energetic. Score and performances aren't bad.
Star Trek Beyond-
It''s a good Star Trek movie, in my opinion. Somehow it feels smaller scale than it even should with the stakes that are expressed, but I like seeing these characters finally established and acting more like competent officers. Not a "great" movie, but one I approve of.
The owls are not what they seem.
