Fallout and the Folly of Nationalism

[Admiral X]

I'd rather ten guilty men go free than one innocent man be executed. Or, you know, just get rid of the death penalty altogether instead of continuing to act like barbarians.

[Darth Wedgius]

You might be able to get organ donor material [through execution], too.

You know, there was another Heinlein novel where they harvested the organs from people, and it resulted in the Earth becoming a dystopian hellhole where the penalty for everything was death.

Are you sure that wasn't Larry Niven?

[Darth Wedgius]

Or it continues as is, with unknown civil liberties.

As it stands the system is remarkably easy to game. It's already designed to engage in filtration and to bar those deemed "unworthy" of franchise from participation in politics. The only way to prevent this system from being gamed for the benefit of a small ruling elit is to expand franchise.

And as to growing organs in a medium, could you provide a reference to that? I only know of growing tissues in a medium.

There are better and far more ethical ways of getting replacement organs even if you can't grow them under medium.

And that there might be better ways to reduce recidivism does not make execution useless. That guy they're pulling out of the chair? The guy who just found out what it's like to be a light bulb filament? Zero recidivism, barring a hunger for brains.

Unless you are willing to expand the Death Penalty's applications massively that's not going to be an issue and it comes at a massive human cost.

Zor

Easy to game doesn't make it authoritarian. That there are other ways of getting organs that you are more comfortable with, and that the death penalty has limited impact on recidivism, doesn't make the death penalty useless.

What would make the system authoritarian is if it had sharply limited civil liberties, no free speech, etc.

What would make the death penalty useless is if it were to have no use.

[TGLS]

You might be able to get organ donor material [through execution], too.

You know, there was another Heinlein novel where they harvested the organs from people, and it resulted in the Earth becoming a dystopian hellhole where the penalty for everything was death.

Are you sure that wasn't Larry Niven?

Well, I guess I was wrong.

[Nealithi]

You might be able to get organ donor material [through execution], too.

You know, there was another Heinlein novel where they harvested the organs from people, and it resulted in the Earth becoming a dystopian hellhole where the penalty for everything was death.

Are you sure that wasn't Larry Niven?

Yes it was Larry Niven. And the concept may have started in the same place. Potential good idea then feel out how it would evolve. Start with just murders. Number of available organs goes up. Not enough to meet demand. But it went up. So you expand the law to another 'irredeemable'. And keep going. In the series there was one man sentenced to the organ banks for speeding. Another was mentioned as exaggerating the benefits of a detergent and got jail time. In the 'present' time of the stories he would have been sent to the organ banks.

Similarly I think Starship Troopers begins with a potentially good idea. Service to the public means you have the right, nay duty, to guide the public. Civilians can have families, wealth and comfort. But cannot affect the laws. A citizen has an easier time being allowed to have children. But it is not a certainty. And then show what issues might arise. One part I have heard of from the book. Recall the army man at the desk missing both his legs? He is seen after shift with prosthetics that let him walk normally. Why does he not wear them while working? He is attempting to discourage the squeamish from possibly jeopardizing others. It makes you think.

And thus we get to Liberty Prime. Liberty Prime is not a weapon of war. He is a morale and propaganda tool. Him marching in Alaska was to rally the troops for big pushes and stir up fervor. His use by the Brotherhood of Steel is a hack. Make this symbol of idealism slaughter our enemies. And his hardwired speeches and slogans? So out of place in the wastes. Few if any will really feel anything. To the downtrodden survivors. They are but empty words. Those words meant for soldiers, to embolden them.

[FaxModem1]

I'm rather surprised that I'm the only one talking about Fallout New Vegas, as that's the game all about nationalism.