Does anyone else find it creepy that G'Kar was watching Delenn and Sheridan?

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Re: Does anyone else find it creepy that G'Kar was watching Delenn and Sheridan?

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Yukaphile wrote: Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:08 pm Still, holy shit... I feel so sorry for JMS. I had no idea it was that bad... :(
Oh, and the fun doesn't stop with Crusade either. There were actually two more attempts to continue the B5 franchise over the years.

The first was with a show on the Sci-Fi Channel (who had actually wanted to buy Crusade from TNT, but couldn't afford it at the time) called The Legend Of The Rangers. Unfortunately, they decided to air the pilot movie at the same time as a major football game, which destroyed them in the viewership numbers. According to JMS, in timezones where the episode was aired after the game, viewership numbers were actually much higher than expected, but Sci-Fi didn't see it that way, and opted not to pick up the show.

The second attempt was called The Lost Tales, and was intended to be a series of straight-to-dvd releases, based on unproduced scripts and ideas from the original show. The first of these was called Voices In The Dark, and was released on B5's ten-year aniversary. This time, the studio was quite happy with the performance and offered to continue with more episodes at the same budget. However, JMS was disappointed with the quality of the final result and wanted a bigger budget for any future releases. They were unable to come to an agreement, and the project ended there.


Later, JMS went on to post this comment online:


https://groups.google.com/forum/m/?hl=en#!topic/rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated/LwBsO4v59Tw
JMS wrote: One final note re: recent discussions on TMoS and more Lost Tales.

B5:TLT was commissioned at a $2 million budget to, yet one more time,
"test the waters" for B5. We did what we could with that, and that
was that. As we did with Rangers, which also suffered from not having
a lot of money because of concerns about "is there really a B5
audience?" Which is, of course, a foolish question from a studio that
has never really understood what it has in B5.

Of late, there have been more discussions from WB about doing more
DVDs, again at a low cost, or a cable thing, again with minimal
investment.

So for the last few months, I've been giving this whole subject a lot
of quiet thought. And I've come to a conclusion.

B5 as a five year story stands beautifully on its own. If anything
else is to be continued from that story, it should be something that
adds to the legacy of B5, rather than subtracts from it.

As well intentioned as Rangers and TLT were, as enticing as it was to
return to those familiar waters, in the end I think they did more to
subtract from the legacy than add to it. I don't regret having made
them, because I needed to go through that to get to the point where I
am now psychologically, but from where I sit now, I wouldn't make them
again.

So I've let everyone up here know that I'm not interested in doing any
more low-budget DVDs. I'm not interested in doing any low-budget
cable things or small computer games. The only thing I would be
interested in doing regarding Babylon 5 from this point on is a full-
featured, big-budget feature film.

It's that or nothing.

And if it's nothing, I'm totally cool with that because the original
story stands on its own just fine. I'm not lobbying for it, I'm not
asking fans to write in about it (nor should you) because such
campaigns never really have much impact...that's simply the position
I've taken up here. Lord knows I don't lack for other things to do
these days. I'm busier on more prestige projects with terrific people
and great film-makers than at any other time in my career.

At the end of the day, for me, it's not just a matter of getting more
B5. It's a matter of getting more *good* B5 that respects what came
before it and doesn't have to compromise visually or in terms of
action. The original show deserves better than that, the surviving
cast members deserve better than that, and the fans who have supported
it over the years definitely deserve better than that. A lot better.

So I've drawn that line in the sand, and I'm happy living on whichever
side of that line the universe puts me. Just thought you should know,
'cause it's your show too.

jms
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Re: Does anyone else find it creepy that G'Kar was watching Delenn and Sheridan?

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The less said about Legend of the Rangers the better.
The past tempts us, the present confuses us, the future frightens us. And our lives slip away moment by moment lost in that vast, terrible in-between.
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Re: Does anyone else find it creepy that G'Kar was watching Delenn and Sheridan?

Post by Yukaphile »

It's also weird that they call Sheridan a megalomaniac at the end. I mean, I get the intent, but this wasn't a good idea with the last bits of Season 4 rushed because the goal was set on fire before you could reach the end zone. I really do get it. History is abused so that monsters are justified and people still do so in the present, while heroes are often brought under harsher scrutiny to the point it just suits an agenda in the present, instead of what was historically accurate. Even so, it didn't really pan out well.
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Re: Does anyone else find it creepy that G'Kar was watching Delenn and Sheridan?

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Yukaphile wrote: Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:08 pm Still, holy shit... I feel so sorry for JMS. I had no idea it was that bad... :(
JMS takes his persecution syndrome too far at times, but I can fully see where it came from.
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Re: Does anyone else find it creepy that G'Kar was watching Delenn and Sheridan?

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Er... remember, the dude did NOT sue when it was clear somebody at Paramount had pilfered his B5 story bible into DS9. Not that I think DS9 was a ripoff, even if its genesis was, and like JMS, I don't think Berman or Piller knew. He worked with Harlan Ellison, man. He has filed dumbass lawsuits and won over less. I think that shows great maturity. Besides that, I also can sympathize to his fandom's feelings. He wanted to do something never seen on TV before, and he wanted to sort of subvert expectations. JMS is the kind of singular work Star Wars was under Lucas, in terms of the movies. Sure, perhaps he got cheated out of a few things, and that is life, but nevertheless, sometimes you can't help but wonder "what if," especially for sci-fi. I think that's why so many of his fandom disliked DS9, they wanted B5 to be the only one doing this thing, even if they started out superficially similar. Especially since Trek has an easier time getting made. That's perhaps an entitlement, but it comes with being part of a larger group and ultimately, having strong feelings about something.
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Re: Does anyone else find it creepy that G'Kar was watching Delenn and Sheridan?

Post by Yukaphile »

Either way, the series also ends with it being implied that G'Kar and Lyta end up together. I find that seriously creepy. I could see old G'Kar being that kinda perv. But... once his growth hits, doing stuff like spying on somebody in the throes of... activity is just... ugh. Remember that he flat-out "propositioned" her and that's all sorts of creepy.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
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Re: Does anyone else find it creepy that G'Kar was watching Delenn and Sheridan?

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I don't get the impression that Lyta and G'kar end up together. Lyta was basically throwing shade at his boast from season 1 (JMS confirmed it one of his BBS/message board posts). Lyta's 100% focused on her telepath work and G'kar has to contend with being a misunderstood religious icon.

With regards to the Season 4 finale, I'm a history buff and how history is recontextualized (200 years ago Napoleon was a hero, now he's a tyrant. How many critical biographies of Churchill have been published in the last 20 years compared to the previous fifty? ) is well represented in that academic deconstruction of Sheridan.

Sheridan does have his flaws, he cares for no one outside the military chain of command-see how he did nothing to help Lyta despite all she'd done to help him and the cause of light. It might not have come across in the smoothest way but that's what happens when deadlines are invoked. Anyway, how we see the past is always through the prism of the present. People often saw don't judge the past using present-day standards, but the simple fact is that happens all the time.
The past tempts us, the present confuses us, the future frightens us. And our lives slip away moment by moment lost in that vast, terrible in-between.
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Re: Does anyone else find it creepy that G'Kar was watching Delenn and Sheridan?

Post by Yukaphile »

Oh thank God! So it's like how idiots online blew the "Klingons have two of EVERYTHING" out of proportion. That's where I saw this claim. Probably incels saying that. Ewwww. Hate them.

Indeed. Hell, he even threatens to throw her back into the Psi Corps where she no doubt would be part of their forced breeding programs. Not attacking Sheridan. And I really don't disagree with holding people to a higher standard in history, ignoring cultural relativism, assuming it makes sense. When it's literally victim-shaming, then I object, STRONGLY. And that's the message in the last episode of Season 4 (too long to type, lol). How history is reexamined. And used to try and serve needs in the present while forgetting those in the past were people too. Not monsters (except those who were) and not saints (except those who were).
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Re: Does anyone else find it creepy that G'Kar was watching Delenn and Sheridan?

Post by Yukaphile »

Not victim-shaming, mind. Sorry. Misspoke. :roll:
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
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