Building Vorlon society...

[Yukaphile]

For my eight-way sci-fi crossover. I am thinking... a reason the Vorlons can sometimes seem like they exist in collective groupthink is that perhaps "breaking off" their consciousness to put in others, like they do with their agents, is something they do among themselves. There'd be different levels to it, though. And not every Vorlon must do so. Among Vorlons, it is considered an honor to hold another piece of a Vorlon within you, while for their agents, it is considered an "honor" just to be touched by the Vorlons, and yet, it is almost always permanent back in Vorlon society. They do not stay within their agents all the time. It is not done. Hell, I'd imagine the Vorlons even "break off" their consciousness to put within their ships, hence the link. This is almost backed up by canon, and how Ulkesh was so furious to learn Kosh had chosen a human to stay in. Temporarily, to their agents, fine. But this was outside their law. I'd imagine there are great organic halls, growing like a towering fleshy spire into the sky on the Vorlon homeworld, where vast archives of Vorlon consciousness is kept, as copies, for their notable leaders. Or the rare time a Vorlon dies, and they are recovered. In my crossover, this would be why Kosh choosing his fate to stay in Luke, and eventually become a wandering consciousness, enrages them so much. He's too curious about other races, and it's like a betrayal. Hell, for a race that lives forever, I'd imagine couples mate for love and "pleasure," not to procreate, though that would sometimes happen, but rarely. Could you maybe imagine there being a very "communal" type relationship among the Vorlons? Like... multiple "lovers?" There are probably no term limits for their leaders. The Emperor is... probably literally the same who ruled over them for eons, or the descendants in a dynasty. Probably has advisors, of course, but I'd also imagine that there is a court like a parliament. I dunno, what do you think?

[Beastro]

There are probably no term limits for their leaders. The Emperor is... probably literally the same who ruled over them for eons, or the descendants in a dynasty.

I took "We are all Kosh" as literal. He's like what Lorien is to all First ones, in that he's the most recent common ancestor of the Vorlons which all others have split off from, hence their reverence for him as well as the leeway afforded to him.

He was, in effect, their leader, but given their agelessness he drifted around doing things while keeping a position of importance. I could see whatever leadership position, being filled by whoever desires with people coming and going as they drift in and out of a desire for the burden and responsibility. Kosh's stint as ambassador could've been excused by him as a working vacation, one beneath his status in Vorlon society, but after a few hundred thousand years since his last change, he needed one.

It could also be the reason for his unconventionalness, in that all other Vorlons were born into their immaterial state while he was at least the closest to their original one and has a mind for things they do not, which is why of them all he's the one that comes to realize the trouble they've gotten into in their self-appointed mission as well as his sympathies for the younger races.

[Yukaphile]

I could definitely see Kosh being their Lorien, in a way, that said, there is plenty of room to build on JMS's "subtext-not-context" approach and add actual text in my story. I doubt he was the Emperor, and if he was, it was only for a short period, but remember the Vorlons are immortal, through probably organic technology rather than naturally like Lorien's race. And within my story, while he was as respected as Lorien, he also knew Ulkesh in ancient times, and according to JMS, they were same age, more or less. So no dice. I really do think as presented in show, and based off the clues to their society, they reacted so badly because it is a Vorlon had never been killed, perhaps died of old age prior to the age of immortality, so they had forgotten it, and that was escalation of the Shadows on their end, and so they returned it, based on Ulkesh, which wasn't an instant decision. It took time. I do think the "We are all Kosh might" is meant that he was the most respected of them, since he let himself be spread so freely among all the Vorlons so that they all felt the loss badly. Like how my mom said people and kids ran screaming into the halls weeping JFK was dead when she was a teenager. He might be a Vorlon who had a piece of his consciousness in practically every Vorlon within their society, their leaders and down to the individual level. Every local Vorlon community had Kosh in them. So while "We are all Kosh" is true, it also might, in a sense, be hyperbole. But close. That's my take.

[Kinky Vorlon]

I disagree with Kosh being their leader. He was an ambassador to B5, and with what we learn of the Vorlons later as well as right off the bat (Remember, they were willing to blow up B5, including Valen, over a minor spat) he's rather moderate who cared about the younger races. Kosh 2.0 was the complete antithesis of his predecessor.

I do think they exist as a form of group consciousness but with some form individuality. I always took "We are all Kosh" as meaning a part of all of us has died. Similar to how the changelings in DS9. They had this great link where they all lived/existed as one, but they could break themselves away and act as individuals if need be.

[Yukaphile]

I know it's in the realm of speculation, but I don't see them as being a group consciousness in the way you think, like the Great Link. They are energy squids, basically, but do have a somewhat physical form. I could see a lot of melding together both physically and mentally on their world, like the Great Link, maybe, but is there any reason to think that Kosh wasn't so beloved, he spread his essence among many of them? JMS even admitted he "overextended" himself too far.