New York Times Op-Ed: ‘Make It So’: ‘Star Trek’ and Its Debt to Revolutionary Socialism

[Admiral X]

I think this author is just trying to convince Trekkies that they're really socialists even if they don't realize it, or are perhaps trying to convince themselves that there's more popular support for their horrible system.

[The Romulan Republic]

Democratic Socialism seems to have a lot to do with a source of wealth (usually oil) that helps fund the state and smaller populations.

As I said, I could argue that any democratic system in which the government regulates business or resources is "socialist". Its just a question of degree. Though admittedly if the definition becomes too broad, there is a risk of it becoming somewhat meaningless.

So far the example of what happens when the oil dries up isn't very good.

I don't know, is northern Europe out of oil? They seem to be doing okay overall, democracy and standard of living-wise.

But sure, it exists.

Nice of you to acknowledge that.

And none of that old communism was true communism; just like those scotsmen aren't true scotsmen...

I did not employ a no true Scotsman fallacy, but you did just employ a straw man.

I never said communist dictatorships "weren't true communism". I said that communism and democratic socialism are not the same thing.

Are you capable of understanding that point? And being honest enough to acknowledge it? Or are you just going to keep playing the McCarthyist card?

[GandALF]

Well Picard's line about "growing out of our infancy" does have some similarities to the Marxist view of history which the communists would use to justify suppressing dissent by claiming that opposition only comes from "counter-revolutionaries" who are on wrong side of history. Which democratic socialists don't fully accept because they're willing to accept losing an election and we never hear of political disputes in the federation because of Gene's "no internal conflict" rule. so ?

Also, some of the Lenin love in that article does smell a bit tankie

[Robovski]

You don't have to run out of oil for it all to fall apart. The price can drop and then you can have a veritable disaster like is unfolding in Venezuela right now. Who knows? Maybe other better run nation's will better weather the change from oil wealth, like Norway. But I expect those to be few and small, like their populations.

[Antiboyscout]

There is some dark subtext in Star Trek if you want to dig for it. It mostly consists of conflicts between stories and especially TOS and TNG.
In the Star Trek 25th anniversary game, one of the missions takes place on a colony that is basically a Cristian mission. This conflicts with TNG where Picard states humanity (implying all of humanity) has moved past religion. Another interesting colony would be planet Native American. This seems odd. Why would the ultra enlightened Federation not just give the Natives all if not most or at least as much as they could of there original land back? Were all the forests of North America cut down? Is there lingering fallout from WW3?
A society with no internal conflicts. Do you know an easy way to have no internal conflicts? Make them all External conflicts. Perhaps in a dark bid to create an Earth with no conflicts they simply took everyone who disagreed and forced or pressured them into settling the outer rim. What seems more likely? One day humanity woke up and all became international, socialist, atheists? Or everyone who wasn't was resettled out of sight? Capitalist traders working on the fringe, Native Americans far from there original homes, Christian missionaries allowed to operate at all, it seems suspect.

[Admiral X]

I remember the episode said they colonized in the 22nd century. My personal theory is that they moved off on their own to essentially be isolationists. At least that is my take from the episode. It's also not an uncommon view amongst Natives who essentially fantasize about the same thing, only in this case they were a bit more pragmatic and went off on their own to find a new home for themselves rather than driving all the foreigners out.