How would you handle TFA & Disney SW? Discuss.

[Zargon]

A Luke School show would be great for the anti male anti white matriarchy. Have like five students...none of them a white male. Have a young black lady Jedi who has "the most powerful Force of all". Maybe like an Asian Jedi who can make his own light saber out of...light.

Each Episode can be about how the Old Jedi were wrong about everything and how the new young Jedi ideas are right.

[Captain Crimson]

A Luke School show would be great for the anti male anti white matriarchy. Have like five students...none of them a white male. Have a young black lady Jedi who has "the most powerful Force of all". Maybe like an Asian Jedi who can make his own light saber out of...light.

Each Episode can be about how the Old Jedi were wrong about everything and how the new young Jedi ideas are right.

I'm not entirely against a PC cast, in-universe. It's a huge galaxy, and nothing says the initial wave of students has to be white people, most prescient because the whitewashing done in the OT is personally embarrassing to me. But I also think the reasons for doing so out-of-verse are possibly suspect, since the majority of people in this country are, I mean... white Caucasians. Does that make those smaller groups less important? Of course not. But the story should come first, and lots of their "diversity" is just hollow when it ignores the areas SF did it right in the past. They must have done something right despite the OT's whitewashing, since people in all variety of ethnic countries love 'em. So why change that? The "diversity" just strikes me as trying to appeal to an international audience, for money. It has no meaning.

[TGLS]

If I recall, Lucas used serials of his youth as a sort of guide when he was casting Star Wars. And because serials in his youth were white like cream cheese, Star Wars was about as white. Lando was deliberate action against this. In all honesty this anecdote is perhaps the strongest argument I can think of to deliberately cast for diversity, as apparently casting decisions can echo way down the line. Though I suppose my memory is faulty.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

20-minute long Palpatine sex scene.

[Captain Crimson]

If I recall, Lucas used serials of his youth as a sort of guide when he was casting Star Wars. And because serials in his youth were white like cream cheese, Star Wars was about as white. Lando was deliberate action against this. In all honesty this anecdote is perhaps the strongest argument I can think of to deliberately cast for diversity, as apparently casting decisions can echo way down the line. Though I suppose my memory is faulty.

He had toyed with the idea of going with an all-black cast at one point, IIRC, which would later become RT. I can't agree here, though, but that would be going massively off-topic, and this thread is already deviated too much from the main point.

I guess a fairer question to ask is what would you do with corporate limitations in place? That's also a factor.

[phantom000]

A Luke School show would be great for the anti male anti white matriarchy. Have like five students...none of them a white male. Have a young black lady Jedi who has "the most powerful Force of all". Maybe like an Asian Jedi who can make his own light saber out of...light.

Each Episode can be about how the Old Jedi were wrong about everything and how the new young Jedi ideas are right.

One idea I had was that the Jedi and the Sith represent the extreme ends of a very wide scale that actually had a lot of grey between them. Basically you have the light side and the darkside; the Jedi are %100 light side and the Sith are %100 dark side, but there other orders that are somewhere in between. Over the years many were absorbed or outright destroyed by the Jedi or Sith, but during the imperial era, with the Jedi gone and the Sith a shadow of their former selves, many of these smaller groups begin to re-emerge.

You probably could not make a movie out of it but it has some potential for some of the side stories.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

You COULD make a movie out of this and it would be bitchin!

I mean, The Last Jedi kinda seemed to be leaning in that direction with the whole "maybe the Jedi order and our stick-up-the-ass rigid dogma is bad".

Of course, learning what followed would mean watching Rise of Skywalker, which is a price I am unwilling to pay.

[Captain Crimson]

Here's another thing. I'd hire people based on their qualifications, not whatever ethnic group they belong to, what their gender is, or what political views they have. Though if Disney truly is to blame for that, then it'd be past my control, but if Ms. Kennedy is really the one behind it at LF, then yeah, I'd do this differently. I'd be looking to grab up classic SF or fantasy writers. I would also accept Mr. Lucas's story treatments, and find a way to weave those into the new movies with the EU as a backdrop. Just me, though.

[Mecha82]

Here's another thing. I'd hire people based on their qualifications, not whatever ethnic group they belong to, what their gender is, or what political views they have. Though if Disney truly is to blame for that, then it'd be past my control, but if Ms. Kennedy is really the one behind it at LF, then yeah, I'd do this differently. I'd be looking to grab up classic SF or fantasy writers. I would also accept Mr. Lucas's story treatments, and find a way to weave those into the new movies with the EU as a backdrop. Just me, though.

How do you know that they didn't do that? I mean if hireing choices are made based on what most vocal people on internet want they would only hire straight white men with conservative views because to those people anything else is pandering to other groups and thus bad. but i guess based on some logic those people are ones that hve right to complain while those that disagree with them don't. When hireing right people they can't ignore everyone else over some one not liking choice that they made for any reason. And then you wonder why I don't believe certain BS that some people including you spout.

[Captain Crimson]

Here's another thing. I'd hire people based on their qualifications, not whatever ethnic group they belong to, what their gender is, or what political views they have. Though if Disney truly is to blame for that, then it'd be past my control, but if Ms. Kennedy is really the one behind it at LF, then yeah, I'd do this differently. I'd be looking to grab up classic SF or fantasy writers. I would also accept Mr. Lucas's story treatments, and find a way to weave those into the new movies with the EU as a backdrop. Just me, though.

How do you know that they didn't do that? I mean if hireing choices are made based on what most vocal people on internet want they would only hire straight white men with conservative views because to those people anything else is pandering to other groups and thus bad. but i guess based on some logic those people are ones that hve right to complain while those that disagree with them don't. When hireing right people they can't ignore everyone else over some one not liking choice that they made for any reason. And then you wonder why I don't believe certain BS that some people including you spout.

I feel as if this is going to be a wasted effort, but I'll try anyway. I'm going to be posting screencaps and going over my points individually one by one. To illustrate my arguments, to show the places where I agree and disagree, and just give my thoughts overall. As well as the areas I periodically agree with LF.

So strap yourself in, because this is going to be a bumpy ride.

Ah, yes, everyone's favorite LF employee, Mr. Hidalgo. Not shocked he thinks more Legends past easter eggs is pointless since he's gone out of his way to discredit the EU, but okay. His comments that he wants a POC director. Fair enough, but he's also ignoring the rather simplistic fact that... white people are a majority in the US. And with California alone white people make up 60% of the state's population, while black people only total two million, out of forty million. Just saying.

Plus he also tweeted out to the fans who want TOR and linked a photo to a Trump rally. Seriously. How insulting to all of the people who want TOR, or want more Legends, to lump them all into the "racist and sexist" category. You can't see it anymore because he either deleted it, or it's vanished when he privated his account, but it's sure telling, eh?

Or... again, could it have to do with the fact whites are a majority? Plus, this isn't the fifties anymore. But given the quality of workers Ms. Kennedy has hired, whether on orders from above by Disney or not, really speaks volumes to their agenda, even whether this woman is not personally involved in it.

This is a huge issue with LF. They fail to see the forest for the trees in terms of population numbers.

With that kind of logic people like Mr. Piller and Mr. Moore would not have been tired for ST back in the nineties. LF seems to want to have their cake and eat it too, in hiring a diverse cast of creators, but also having them push out quality content, and yet it also ignores the way LF has in the past had plenty of female creators, just to name-drop Ms. Kennedy's own comments.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2015/12/16/the-surprising-number-of-women-behind-lucasfilm-2/

She never mentions them. Or all the great female characters in the EU that no longer exist. It is empty virtue-signaling. And before you make the claim those great female characters still exist, that is true, within their continuity. But taking a character like Jan Ors, bringing her over to your movie, renaming her and then having her take over Kyle Katarn's role for the purpose of PC rebranding is hardly doing honor to them or Mr. Lucas's creative vision. That's not Jan Ors. That's Jyn Erso.

Is there any evidence at all to support this crackpot woke theory?

Hmmmm... this either implies that males are more frequently harassed, or that he thinks he deserves it for being male. How does this not strike you as insane? No one deserves harassment regardless of ethnic background or gender.

And this comment from Mr. Freed strikes me as REALLY creepy. He wants an immigrant woman, um... there would be an inherent power dynamic there that's concerning. Sure, you could make the case he is helping someone in another country to get here, but... it is through a marriage of convenience, he gets sex out of it, and... very possibly could use the marriage as leverage to get her to obey, because if he divorces her, she's kicked out of this country. Why can't a marriage be about love? Why is he and others like him making stuff like this political?

It shows you these new workers have race on the mind, they are obsessed with it, and stuff like white supremacy, which... yeah, half the country voted for Mr. 45. It's embarrassing, but what can you do? And rather than perhaps come to think these remarks may have a role in pushing people in the center even further to the right, no, they lack that self-reflection, and just keep trucking on as usual.

He wants a tracker to monitor PC inclusion, OMG... why can't it be about a good story anymore? I would have no issues with Rey if she wasn't some kind of gender-swapped Luke/Jaina Solo, and yet to call them out on that, I'd get called a sexist, when I think sexual harassment and assault is a serious rot at the heart of our society, that it disproportionately affects women, and needs to be fixed.

Ms. Carson shows she is out of touch. To me, "the golden age of SF" had plenty of diversity. Captain Sisko was not "the black captain." Geordi La Forge was a well-developed character. Teal'c was their go-to dude for all kinds of alien weirdness. Cassie from Animorphs rarely talked about her race, only when it mattered. Dr. Franklin and Dr. Bashir were well-developed POC characters to the point their race is never brought up. It is just accepted as a fact of life. In short, with the possible exception of LGBT representation, the golden age of SF had diversity that wasn't forced, and a future were people were accepted regardless of their skin color or gender. And I miss that, greatly. Clearly Ms. Carson is not familiar with the SF works we here on this messageboard are.

Making it about race once again despite their insistence it's about equality. My mom watches MSNBC, and she harps on much the same. That if it's coming down to ancient battles, and a race war and you know, stuff like that, she's gonna choose PC people. Why do you have to go so hard-line? It moves you even further from the center so that you can't see people on the other side as human beings, but just as enemies, and alienates potential allies. History has proven this again and again.

I have never disparaged or hated on minorities for their skin tone, and I acknowledge the centuries of systematic enslavement they went through, and how there are disadvantages to their communities. That being said, however, to hear people like this talk, you'd think blacks were the only slave group we had. The Irish, lily-white immigrants, were also enslaved. You don't do POC groups any favors in treating them as a special case merely because they have the deck stacked against them in their own way. I like to think we're all victims, and that we all have unlimited rights.

Making it about race again. This is a standard tactic at LF and shows you have they have an agenda in who they hire. If you agree with it, I think that is a perfectly valid opinion. Sincerely. But this is the kind of stuff I am talking about.

A valid point, but this also ignores the many white politicians who are not racist, either in the GOP or DNC.

Kind of shows off how lazy LF employees are, right? It's their approach to management, whether it is getting out more EU stories or coming up with a long-term plan for the films. Not Mr. Older, but what he comments on here, stuff like getting historical facts wrong, in an age of information. The author in question deflected, insisting they lacked the resources to accurately represent the information. Like, really? It's the same reason they can't give the fans more Legends despite literally asking them for it. Mr. Martin's comments. "It's too hard!" Is it because we're just "fiftysomethings" that don't matter to them like Ms. Kennedy recently was revealed to have said... or is it that they just don't think they're up to it? Who knows.

That is definitely a fair point to bring up, since I most definitely disagree with the whitewashing done in the OT. At the same time, however, the story still holds up and will endure while gender-swapping the new Luke attached to Jaina Solo for branding purposes will, IMO, not become an ingrained part of pop culture the same way since it was done merely to score points and it shows. Thus in that respect, focusing on the story is all-important because that will net you greater profit and prestige. Not hollow representation for its own sake.

How does this not come off as racist? Can you imagine if some white man or woman said the words "identical black guys?" And yet, I've seen similarities between white people, black people, and various Latinos to the point I needed a few seconds to work out the differences. People resemble one another and have for millennia. This might be a minor point, but stacked up alongside everything else you really see qualifications do not matter, but political views or ethnic background or your genitalia. Those familiar with the old EU know the extent to which they have lazily pilfered from it to prop up the new canon, which I have said before when it works it is in spite of itself.

To put it plain, this is BS. I'm lily-white AH, and I still see beauty in African-American women, Asian-American women, Latinas, and many other groups. Now granted, I think representation in interracial couples is lower than it seriously should be, but at the same time LF employees making it about race and about gender. Story comes first. And equality is a two-edged sword they do not seem to see.

As an aside, why is it I can head to any Rule 34 site, and see tons of representation (LOL) for black/white sex couplings, but not for the so-called professional entertainment business?

This is a big issue I have with LF. They are cannibalizing themselves in terms of which is MOAR PC. Take Ahsoka from TCW. We know they were planning to give her a love interest. It goes back more than a few years. An Asian VA. Okay, cool. Yet he was swapped and replaced with two traditionally butch-looking female characters, implying that they are lesbians. It's how the left in their own way perpetuates regressive stereotypes like the right does. Plus if you are going to add in LGBT inclusion why can't you make it natural? Don't even bring it up in story. Isn't that the point of a more tolerant world? People don't even spot our differences anymore.

While I won't deny to a degree that white privilege is an endemic part of the US social hierarchy, at the same time, as I've said over and over, whites are a majority. I'd prefer representation that is in proportion to the number of people we have in this country, if you're going to go that way. And in that respect, in many areas we're thriving, and others we're lacking.

Larger point. LF is OBSESSED with race and gender. Not story. If they did care about story, they wouldn't lift whole near-similar plotlines, characters, and events from the EU. I'll give you this, it is great seeing a variation of my favorite stories appear on screen. But when you do it this way, in such a haphazard format, what do you think was gonna happen? I think taking from the EU allows them to focus more on the "diversity" they say they want, while putting in the minimum effort. The hardest workers for the new movies are the FX teams and actors. They have so much heavy lifting to do, I think they deserve way more credit than they actually get.

Now TBF, I'd love that movie. It's clearly an analogy to the 2016 election and Mr. 45. That being said, however, it's yet a further sign LF is focusing purely on PC semantics which do not matter to score points, and that corporate limitations means they can't even live up to those values they claim.

They make effing SANTA CLAUS into a racial issue. Seriously. Yeah, I know you can criticize Jesus for being whitewashed, but that has a proper time and a place. Same with all other social themes. Hey kids, the white bogeyman is coming to give you candy and lure you into his sled? The hell!

This is wrong on so many levels IT BURNS. No, art is not political by nature. How about a simple romance that never once brings up political issues? How about something like Pokemon, which is an adventure anime about capturing cute critters and cockfighting with them? This shows you the "quality" of workers they want at LF. It really is about an agenda.

This is quite condescending, and it is where you wind up pushing people in the center who could potentially agree with your actions further into the enemy camp, as I've noted above. They do not conduct themselves as proper salesmen, when you have an approach of insulting your customers. They appear to think the PC crowd is much larger than it actually is, and that's a bad view.

I don't mind all the new female characters, since the actors convey them effectively and the plot, taken as it is from the older material, held up back then and does so now, but I do think taking them from the EU and just renaming them for marketing purposes is a horrible business policy. If you are going to be PC and feminist-minded, then why not actually give us those older female characters? Why don't you ever mention them with SW celebrations?

We know why. They laid it out plain as day in TLJ: "Let the past die. Kill it if you have to!"

Six, four, five, seven! Who makes feminist creed seem rockin'? L U C A S F I L M! L U C A S F I L M! Let's go, hustle, LUCASFILM!

Again, I wouldn't have any issue with this if they didn't tout their own accomplishments as if it's noteworthy, when LF had plenty of great female writers in the past and great female characters that don't matter to the new regime except for branding. Because say what you want about Mr. Lucas, he strikes me as an idealist. He dreams of a better world, and in the end, I believe he practiced what he preached, because it is reflected in the quality of writing. The most talented people were hired. Not just for some abstract reasons.

Humans are sexual creatures. This ignores that women can and do check out men and other women. Nothing wrong with that except to the anti-sexy feminists. Granted, I can sympathize to the mantra that love should matter, and not the shallow skin-deep stuff, but at the same time, human beings are superficial creatures, and most especially when it comes to mating habits, so this is kind of inevitable as I see it. Acknowledge female sexuality while encouraging fanservice for women. But since we cater to a male audience, we can't have that, can we?

I think this just speaks for itself. 70% of the country and even larger numbers worldwide are terrible. Right.

So a guy who gets mugged, has his car jacked, his dog killed, and his wife raped is not a victim, right? Either we're not victims, or we're all victims, take your pick.

They keep saying this, but they don't practice it. Ms. Kennedy has not broken any particular glass ceilings despite LF's attempts to claim they have. Those familiar with the history of production and the older content can see what a load of crap this is. Now granted, hiring a female director to helm an SW movie for the first time would be neato if she were qualified, but they are just saying this stuff for points. I've said it before. They don't even really believe in it. It might even be a shield to deflect criticism from Hollyweird's actual abuse of minorities and women behind the scenes.

Except for all the other great POC characters you could name from TNG, DS9, B5, NuBSG, NuWho, SG, and many other shows.

I don't want or care about white inclusion on its own. But this is the same man who went on a blistering rant about how he knows Mr. Lucas so well from Mr. Filoni, and for SW, stuff just happens. That's how he defended the fact Rey had no training, which even Mr. Hamill himself commented on. It's also amazing Mr. Prinze Jr. shows such callousness to animals. We're pigs that need to be cooked and eaten? What about the actual mistreatment of our livestock that we could be doing better in?

So much for the tolerant left, huh? Not even defending white supremacy or smoking, mind you, but the actual white supremacists of the Nazi regime banned smoking, ironically. Just stunning, huh?

This is what I'm going on about. They focus so much on and obsess about race and gender, of those who do are about telling a good story, they're getting drowned out by other LF or Disney forces. And let's not forget all the rebranding they have done to EU characters without ever actually referencing them or pretending it ever existed. They have laid it out clear as day. They want a younger audience and think they are more PC than those older "fiftysomething" fans. It's how they can just throw aside so many great legacy characters.

Seriously, look at this.

Their own words, not mine. It really dovetails nicely into what the creative forces were discussing while developing the ST.

They want to subvert our expectations and bring in a matriarchy. The themes they harp on about, healing, rebirth are not unique to femininity, and also, why do we need a matriarchy any more than a patriarchy? Why can't we see people for being people? For all these people hired for an SJW agenda, I don't think they're bad for being women or being POC, or what have you. I think it is because they are idiots or were at the very best inexperienced, and in over their heads.

They're not hiring people based on qualifications because the Disney canon is entirely unoriginal. It's perhaps logical to remarket past elements from a cold business view, but then you got stuff like how Rey is replacing Luke as a rebranded Jaina Solo, and Jan Ors is replacing Kyle Katarn as a rebranded Jyn Erso. I've shown what their agenda is above with the screenshot the TROS visual dictionary and a brainstorming session long ago. Their intent is to make the workplace more diverse, when we already had that, and to make the plot more diverse, when we already had that, with the exception of LGBT representation again. It's all backwards and it's why SW is no longer a nest of creativity.