Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire Discussion

[Winter]

In my opinion, there is no work that better represents them Shadows of the Empire. Conceived as an interquel between The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, it's a multimedia project with comics, games, novels, audio drama, an original sound track that, as far as I know, wasn't included in the game or AD. When it came out a lot of people assumed that a Star Wars movie was coming out given how big Shadows was only there never was a film which was by design which is why I think it's the best representation of the Lucas Era.

If there's one word that can best sum up the Lucas Era it's Experimentation. Tons of creators came into the series with freedom to do as they saw fit and only a handful of rules like not being allowed to kill off Lucas' original characters or planets. Other then that you were free to do whatever you wanted which was both good and bad. Bad because this meant that anyone could come in and kill off any characters that weren't Lucas' originals and that they could write the Original Trio completely out of character if they wanted to. The good side of this was that we got MANY Great and classic stories out of this like the Thrawn Trilogy, Knights of the Old Republic, The Clone Wars and many others.

But because Star Wars was, simply put, the BIGGEST Franchise of all time and Lucas himself was mostly hands off and would offer creators the chance to truly do as they saw fit meant that they could do things like Shadows which, for better or worse, helped to make the Lucas Era memorable. Shadows is something I can't see any other series doing. Creating a bunch of tie-in material for a film that wasn't ever going to be made and all of it also doubling as a interquel for two films that were no longer being shown in theaters.

This was just something that Lucas Film and Arts wanted to do and went through with it simply because they could. And it was actually well received at the time. The Outrider, which served as Shadows' Millennium Falcon, was given a cameo in A New Hope and Rise of Skywalker and Xizor, a Major character of Shadows, was given a cameo in The Phantom Menace and Dash, the Protagonist of Shadows, was named dropped in Solo.

Again, can you see this sort of thing happening in the Disney Era right now? The only way I could see this being made is if was all attached to a movie that was going to be made or as tie-ins to an upcoming movie that would be required for an upcoming movie, Looking at You The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker.

Again, it had its ups and downs but I miss that Experimentation. That sense of freedom in doing whatever story you wanted, be it alternate universe, a cosmic horror story, a political thriller with little to no use of the Force, Zombies Stories! I do think there should be some restrictions in order to avoid another Legacy of the Force where the Experimentation was taken a baby bit to far and "Do as you please" idea was taken to its most extreme conclusion.

Shadows is a concept that ultimately paid off and who's legacy will likely continue to be left years from now and one I wish the Disney Era would embrace.

[Captain Crimson]

In my opinion, there is no work that better represents them Shadows of the Empire. Conceived as an interquel between The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, it's a multimedia project with comics, games, novels, audio drama, an original sound track that, as far as I know, wasn't included in the game or AD. When it came out a lot of people assumed that a Star Wars movie was coming out given how big Shadows was only there never was a film which was by design which is why I think it's the best representation of the Lucas Era.

While I respect your opinion, and can't refute what you're saying on an objective or subjective basis, for me personally, I'd say the multimedia project for the Clone Wars back in 2003 did a far better job, especially with how watered down it became the more oversatured that era was. We got epic stories like the Republic comics, Mr. Tartakovsky's OG Clone Wars cartoon, epic books like Mr. Stover's Revenge of the Sith novelization, and far beyond that. To me, that was when the EU was at its strongest in terms of a tightly focused continuity, but it was tied into the PT as well, so I get what you mean.

If there's one word that can best sum up the Lucas Era it's Experimentation. Tons of creators came into the series with freedom to do as they saw fit and only a handful of rules like not being allowed to kill off Lucas' original characters or planets. Other then that you were free to do whatever you wanted which was both good and bad. Bad because this meant that anyone could come in and kill off any characters that weren't Lucas' originals and that they could write the Original Trio completely out of character if they wanted to. The good side of this was that we got MANY Great and classic stories out of this like the Thrawn Trilogy, Knights of the Old Republic, The Clone Wars and many others.

I would agree with this, for the most part. Experimentation means a risk of failure. And you are correct that Mr. Lucas wasn't concerned with that. But the "handful of rules" is as I see it a persistent myth in the Disney era that will not die, like it should. The EU authors had plenty of outlines from Mr. Lucas that they followed. Mr. Lucas was not too fond of a Vader impersonator, so it became a reborn Emperor Palpatine. He was the one to steer them into killing Anakin Solo because he didn't want kids to be confused when he was making the PT. He didn't want Luke killed, so he suggested that they kill off Han, and they instead went with Chewie. He stepped in to save Quinlan Vos from his death, since he was a huge fan of the character. He didn't want Yoda's species explored. Fact of the matter is that the EU had a detailed checklist Mr. Lucas signed off on, what was allowed, and what was not.

But because Star Wars was, simply put, the BIGGEST Franchise of all time and Lucas himself was mostly hands off and would offer creators the chance to truly do as they saw fit meant that they could do things like Shadows which, for better or worse, helped to make the Lucas Era memorable. Shadows is something I can't see any other series doing. Creating a bunch of tie-in material for a film that wasn't ever going to be made and all of it also doubling as a interquel for two films that were no longer being shown in theaters.

"Mostly hands off" seems too similar to a comment Ms. Kennedy had made that it "had no oversight from George," which is an outright fabrication. I am not accusing you of doing this, mind you, but to try to illustrate that Mr. Lucas was far more involved in the EU than you give him credit for. The highs and lows of the EU you can directly lay at Mr. Lucas's desk with all that he had signed off on. I would like to direct you to an EU defense blog that goes over this in far more detail than I ever could.

https://www.theexpandeduniverse.com/quotes-databank

https://www.theexpandeduniverse.com/was-the-eu-canon-1

I'd also like to recommend Matt Wilkins' YouTube channel. Sure, he defends the EU, but he doesn't trash on LF. He mostly celebrates the EU, what he loves about it, and doesn't even follow Disney canon.

This was just something that Lucas Film and Arts wanted to do and went through with it simply because they could. And it was actually well received at the time. The Outrider, which served as Shadows' Millennium Falcon, was given a cameo in A New Hope and Rise of Skywalker and Xizor, a Major character of Shadows, was given a cameo in The Phantom Menace and Dash, the Protagonist of Shadows, was named dropped in Solo.

Again, can you see this sort of thing happening in the Disney Era right now? The only way I could see this being made is if was all attached to a movie that was going to be made or as tie-ins to an upcoming movie that would be required for an upcoming movie, Looking at You The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker.

Actually, I get the distinct impression this is what they are attempting to do with the High Republic project, but I don't get the sense they have competent management over at LF right now. For all you say that Mr. Lucas was very hands-off, I sometimes get the sense that is how Ms. Kennedy conducts LF past the political views she personally thinks are important, or the more detached business decisions.

Will the High Republic era be good? Possibly. The concept art looks good for the most part, the ideas sound good for the most part, though people's habits in declaring "firsties" still irks me and the recent retcon changing the rule of two worries me, but I shall remain cautiously optimistic. This is allegedly something they've had in the works since 2014, so let's see how they handle this. Though if the rumors are to be taken with a grain of salt, then the many factions with their hand in the jar at LF are going to make forging a new consistent continuity on par with the old EU difficult.

Again, it had its ups and downs but I miss that Experimentation. That sense of freedom in doing whatever story you wanted, be it alternate universe, a cosmic horror story, a political thriller with little to no use of the Force, Zombies Stories! I do think there should be some restrictions in order to avoid another Legacy of the Force where the Experimentation was taken a baby bit to far and "Do as you please" idea was taken to its most extreme conclusion.

Shadows is a concept that ultimately paid off and who's legacy will likely continue to be left years from now and one I wish the Disney Era would embrace.

Experimentation is messy, and not everything is going to be a Burger King. But I get what you're saying. I think that LOTF broke down because Mr. Lucas really stopped caring, the yes-men he was surrounded by were steering the ship toward a reboot and possible Disney merger as far back as 2006 a year after ROTS concluded, and attempting to link it into TCW of the era, which by Mr. Filoni's own admission wasn't part of what he was doing, wound up dragging it down past the point of repair. Yes, this may be tinfoil hat, but those shady corporate types never tell you the complete truth and I think once ROTS ended that Mr. Iger had had his eye on LF for a while.

I've been toying with the idea for a while on doing a comparison between Toei's business practices and LF's business practices since it really is like comparing an oily used car salesmen and an efficient business owner. How Toei handles their non-canon content, how they keep the father for the story involved in the decisions being made, and more. I think LF could learn a thing or two from them.

Would you be interested in that?

[Madner Kami]

Would you be interested in that?

I can only speak for myself, but sure, go ahead.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Overall I think Disney's mainly going to be concerned with movies and shows. I do think it's interesting the compare and contrast of Disney and overall Lucas entertainment, but it seems like Disney tried making a sandbox of movies like how LucasArts made there games. Not really conducive to the overall story, but very consistent and overlapping.

As far as Disney and games, I'm not aware of Disney having a big reputation for games in the first place, so anything that they would venture into would be for the sake of the movies and shows. Thus I feel like LucasArts was much more a part of the Star Wars experience than any game division of Disney would be. Of course, Disney IPs have very popular games, so how far off there I am might be pretty significant.

Shadows of the Empire was a fun project that LucasArts busted out as a near launch title for the 64, and it was mostly marketed like that, because it was a LucasArts thing that just happens to be in the LucasFilm universe. Disney would definitely promote it as a tie-in.

Also, this was very near the re-release of the original trilogy in theaters, so there might have been more than you let on, though I still see your point.

[Captain Crimson]

Would you be interested in that?

I can only speak for myself, but sure, go ahead.

I shall be putting it together and posting it in a new thread when I get around to it.

[Winter]

Literally the same day I post this what do I find on the net?

https://www.superherohype.com/geek-culture/481130-the-star-wars-shadow-of-the-empire-soundtrack-is-coming-to-vinyl

I swear this was unintentional but I find it hilarious that the day I post something related to Shadows a major makes an add that says that the sound track for Shadows is coming to Vinyl. Again

[Captain Crimson]

Literally the same day I post this what do I find on the net?

https://www.superherohype.com/geek-culture/481130-the-star-wars-shadow-of-the-empire-soundtrack-is-coming-to-vinyl

I swear this was unintentional but I find it hilarious that the day I post something related to Shadows a major makes an add that says that the sound track for Shadows is coming to Vinyl. Again

Lady Fate has smiled upon you.