Star Trek: Lower Decks

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I wonder, does the zombie plague affect the locals or do they have an immunity to it?

[CharlesPhipps]

I wonder, does the zombie plague affect the locals or do they have an immunity to it?

They drink spider-milk so they're immune.

[Zefram Mann]

Wanna know the sad part? Despite it being a comedy show and deliberately over the top, she still came off better than that idiot Captain Jellico from Chain of Command. At least she didn't override the recommendations of the entire command staff and ignore the chief engineer when she implemented her nightmare scheduling. And she reversed course when it was obvious her course wasn't working. And she didn't once suggest that a senior officer was plotting against her! So she's like three degrees better than Jellico.

Also I'd bet a hundred dollars against a jelly donut that Chain of Command came up in the writer's room while they were writing this episode.

#JellicoDidNothingWrong

[GreyICE]

Wanna know the sad part? Despite it being a comedy show and deliberately over the top, she still came off better than that idiot Captain Jellico from Chain of Command. At least she didn't override the recommendations of the entire command staff and ignore the chief engineer when she implemented her nightmare scheduling. And she reversed course when it was obvious her course wasn't working. And she didn't once suggest that a senior officer was plotting against her! So she's like three degrees better than Jellico.

Also I'd bet a hundred dollars against a jelly donut that Chain of Command came up in the writer's room while they were writing this episode.

#JellicoDidNothingWrong

Please tell me this is one of those generation Z ironic things. I've seen the devil's advocate argument, but it was really stupid and the person making it admitted as much.

[Mabus]

You mean....the mother and daughter? I mean, you're complaining about them being too similar.

Well, before Mariner and Carol, there was Michael Burnham and Raffi.
And there's still the issue of why do these characters have to be the way they're written.

Burnham is written like a Vulcan - low emotional displays, logical, focus on the sciences and reason. She does use logic as an excuse as much as an actual guiding principle, but that's just about the most Vulcan flaw in all of Star Trek.

Raffi is a former drug addict, someone who idolized Picard, and then when her idol failed and her dreams were shattered allowed her life to fall apart. She did half the things she did in the show to get to a semi-legal space station to see her family again, family who didn't really want anything to do with her.

Mariner is a comedy sendup of the entire notion of the "off the books officer". The one who is "a hard man who doesn't follow the rules, but gets results?" I mean come on, the police chief asking the newbie to "monitor X because I know he's up to no good" is just about the most classic setup for that sort of shit ever, and was clearly what they were riffing on. She tried to fight the first officer over who got to fight a death duel with a giant alien.

If you think these are all "the same sort of character" then I think it shows more about the lens you're viewing them through than it does about the writers.

Was I not clear what I meant? Their common trait is that they're unlikeable and unpleasant. Be it "I'm gonna start a mutiny because I know better"/"but what about me" (Burnham), breaking apart your family due to your conspiracy obsession and turning into a drug addict (Raffi), having constant anger issues over everything (Carol) or being a self-entitled jackass with mommy issues who, on the first appearance, gets drunk and (near-fatally) assaults another ensign, then on further appearances does nothing but belittle everybody around her and even think that she's somewhat more qualified than the XO in fight because, oh no, she has scars (Mariner).
That's my "the same sort of character": unpleasant, self-entitled, narcissistic and unlikeable. Oh and they rarely suffer actual consequences of their bad actions, they always get saved by the plot, or at least when some karma happens, it just gets forgotten by the next episode or has no effect on the character/story.

[CharlesPhipps]

Yeah, that's the point we're rebutting.

I don't think Burnham is unlikable or unpleasant, just socially awkward. Whenever she's around Tilly, she's friendly and nurturing.

Mariner isn't either as she's incredibly socially gregarious. It's just that her attempts to befriend Boimler have backfired horribly because he's kind of a piece of crap himself.

Freeman is unlikable and unpleasant.

Raffi is a hot mess, yes.

Kassidy is warm and friendly.

[Mabus]

...I never mentioned Kassidy being unpleasant? Or even mention Kassidy at all?

Also, how is Burnham causing a mutiny "socially awkward"?

[CharlesPhipps]

...I never mentioned Kassidy being unpleasant? Or even mention Kassidy at all?

Also, how is Burnham causing a mutiny "socially awkward"?

She had a PTSD-induced breakdown. Not exactly a moment of normal behavior.

Also, she mutineed, not caused a mutiny.

[J!!]

She also spent an entire season atoning for it.

Really, it seems like you just don't like flawed characters. Kinda funny how you only seem to care when those characters are black women though.

[Link8909]

While each is their own and some characters will resonate differently with other people, honestly I never found any of the characters you mentioned unlikable, and my own thoughts and reasons are similar to GreyICE and CharlesPhipps.

I like Ensign Mariner, she's really fun, but still capable, and I am really looking forward to seeing more from her and her interactions with Ensign Boimler and her mother Captain Freeman.

I also personally like Commander Burnham, and while I recognize them I'm not bothered by the thing that many other people like Chuck have pointed out, I also find her backstory very interesting since unlike other characters in Star Trek like Captain Kirk or Captain Picard who after their traumatic experience held a deep hatred against those that caused said trauma (the Klingons killing Kirk's son and the Borg assimilating Picard), when she watched her parents be killed by Klingons, Burnham developed survivors guilt and her motivation including her mutiny was not out of hatred, but fear of the Klingons and of history repeating itself, it's like the conversation with Tony Stark and Nick Fury in Avengers: Age of Ultron:

Tony Stark: I watched my friends die. You'd think that'd be as bad as it gets, right? Nope. Wasn't the worst part.
Nick Fury: The worst part is that you didn't.

I also like Burnham's personality and both GreyICE and CharlesPhipps describe her well, low emotional displays, logical, focus on the sciences and reason, with a sort of introverted nature at the start of the series.

I don't have a strong opinion on Raffi, but she's an interesting character that has room to grow, and CharlesPhipps description of her as "a hot mess" is quite accurate.

And of course Kasidy Yates is just great, it was really good seeing Captain Sisko finding love again and even remarrying, and was such a shame that he had to become space Jesus and leave her.

Now for me personally the most unlikable character in all of Star Trek is still Jonathan Archer, and I've only scratched the surface on how much I hate him in the thread here on Chuck's look at Archer video.