Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:16 am
If you will recall, even in VOY and TNG, dilithium is volatile, as it has exploded and torn apart planets, and it's hinted it even did so in STII.
That's mostly why I'm thinking that the Burn was a natural occurrence, although I'm willing to bet that it was scientists playing around with dilithium and going horribly wrong.
And somehow, all the Dilithium all across the galaxy (at least) exploded in unison, because Dave happened to sneeze onto a thumb-sized piece of Dilithium in Bumfucknowhereville on Spaceplanet1500-X54. Yup. Plausible and definitly not bringing in yet another galaxy-wide threat that the heroes have to deal with. No sir, it's all new talented story-writing of the most successful Star Trek series in the world ever.
Put like that, it really does sound as if Dave Lister is just out of shot playing pool with planets. Of course, that is a comedy set in space. It has an excuse.
And the sad thing is, if they wanted to take warp drive out of the equation, they could have just detonated a few Omega molecules and been done with it. Maybe some manufactured technobabble Omega equivalent of red Kryptonite that have attributes all of their own, but i'll take that over this.
I think the "On no the Universe will end unless Mary Sue Mikey Burnum saves everyone AGAIN!" has always been a bad season long plot device starting with Discovery season one episode one. And here we are doing it for the third time....not only will Mikey remake the Federation by herself, but she will also re populate the universe with dilithium or re invent warp travel.
Sure Star Trek has the Outrageous Okna, who is a Han Solo copy that came out years after the original three Star Wars movies. And sure, when a lame writer copies Han solo....AGAIN...they will always make minor cosmetic differences. (and you know legally they CAN'T really have the ''real" Han Solo show up). Anyway it is the big character personality things they copy: Pretends to be a cool tough thug type guy...but, awwww, is really a soft teddy bear with a heart of gold; Is a cool, charismatic ladies man; is smart in the dumbest way possible("I hot wired my ship to be super duper fast "); is clever and witty and sarcastic. Plus that cool cowboy biker renegade look.
Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:16 am
If you will recall, even in VOY and TNG, dilithium is volatile, as it has exploded and torn apart planets, and it's hinted it even did so in STII.
That's mostly why I'm thinking that the Burn was a natural occurrence, although I'm willing to bet that it was scientists playing around with dilithium and going horribly wrong.
And somehow, all the Dilithium all across the galaxy (at least) exploded in unison, because Dave happened to sneeze onto a thumb-sized piece of Dilithium in Bumfucknowhereville on Spaceplanet1500-X54. Yup. Plausible and definitly not bringing in yet another galaxy-wide threat that the heroes have to deal with. No sir, it's all new talented story-writing of the most successful Star Trek series in the world ever.
Put like that, it really does sound as if Dave Lister is just out of shot playing pool with planets. Of course, that is a comedy set in space. It has an excuse.
And the sad thing is, if they wanted to take warp drive out of the equation, they could have just detonated a few Omega molecules and been done with it. Maybe some manufactured technobabble Omega equivalent of red Kryptonite that have attributes all of their own, but i'll take that over this.
Ah, well. STD continues to be awesome
You know, that is kinda weird, since going all the way back to S1, the impression I have is their spore drive was derived in some shape or form, from the writing room to what we see in-verse, off the Caretaker from VOY. So you'd think they'd be aware of Omega molecules.
This is what I meant. I'd be fine with continuity glitches if I didn't get the impression it's because they're fumbling about, instead of a true creative license. I know ST writers have done that before, but I also think in the age of online wikis, it should be the go-to to at least read on the lore you are writing for if you don't wanna do something completely different - as others who have seen my long essays on SWL can attest to.
Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:16 pm
You know, that is kinda weird, since going all the way back to S1, the impression I have is their spore drive was derived in some shape or form, from the writing room to what we see in-verse, off the Caretaker from VOY. So you'd think they'd be aware of Omega molecules.
This is what I meant. I'd be fine with continuity glitches if I didn't get the impression it's because they're fumbling about, instead of a true creative license. I know ST writers have done that before, but I also think in the age of online wikis, it should be the go-to to at least read on the lore you are writing for if you don't wanna do something completely different - as others who have seen my long essays on SWL can attest to.
I think they do look at lore, when Book was listing of different ways to get around he mentioned quantum slipstream, we see a Lurian (Morn's race), and even uses the Temporal Cold War as a reason why time travel isn't an option anymore, so I think they're aware of Omega and maybe didn't want to use it in this story, however it's still the first episode and we don't even know the reason why dilithium just exploded, and for all we know Omega could have played a part in that.
"I think, when one has been angry for a very long time, one gets used to it. And it becomes comfortable like…like old leather. And finally… it becomes so familiar that one can't remember feeling any other way."
That was a great season-opener. Let's hope they move forward instead of looking back. As long as they don't try to make The Burn into a mystery plot, I think the Rebuilding will go well as a story. Leave The Burn as the inciting incident for this setting and no more.
Deledrius wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:31 pm
That was a great season-opener. Let's hope they move forward instead of looking back. As long as they don't try to make The Burn into a mystery plot, I think the Rebuilding will go well as a story. Leave The Burn as the inciting incident for this setting and no more.
Agreed, although I'm sure the crew of Discovery will try to find out more about how the Burn happened, what I'd like to see is that it's not apart of some convoluted plan by a villain, or that they can't unto the damage and need an alternative solution to rebuild.
"I think, when one has been angry for a very long time, one gets used to it. And it becomes comfortable like…like old leather. And finally… it becomes so familiar that one can't remember feeling any other way."
I'd just like to say how much I loved that scene at the very end. A man who's been quietly maintaining his post for forty years, keeping the faith, and having it rewarded when an actual Star Fleet Officer walks in his door and grants him a field commission so that he can personally raise the flag of the Federation once more.
Deledrius wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:31 pm
That was a great season-opener. Let's hope they move forward instead of looking back. As long as they don't try to make The Burn into a mystery plot, I think the Rebuilding will go well as a story. Leave The Burn as the inciting incident for this setting and no more.
Agreed, although I'm sure the crew of Discovery will try to find out more about how the Burn happened, what I'd like to see is that it's not apart of some convoluted plan by a villain, or that they can't unto the damage and need an alternative solution to rebuild.
I would like to point out here that dilithium has been in use since at least 9th century BC given how the Vulcan monastery at P'Jem is stated to be 3000 years old. 2151AD - 3000 = 849BC
For this to be a natural event, that would mean that dilithium has been used safely for 4000 years and now suddenly a galactic fart has broken it all. For this to be a natural event, it'll be a nonsensical one. Which means ''villain plan'' or ''stupid accident''.
(I mean come off it, I get the whole ''fossil fuels'' allegory they could be going with, especially as TNG ''Force of Nature'' also went with it, but Voyager was meant to have solved that with its nacelle design. I tell you, should have gone with weaponised Omega molecules if you wanted to make warp drive a rarity, it would make a lot more sense.)
Link8909 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:54 pmBare in mind that the damage is done, and no Warp Drive has been a status quo for over a century, and there is no way to unto the Burn with time travel, or a villain has been introduced that wants the status quo to remain or that benefited from the Burn, the story of season three is that of rebuilding and personally I hope that while they to fine out how the Burn happened, that they can't unto the damage and have to find a new way to reconnect the Federation, which could be how the Spore Drive could play into this.
Even ignoring the obvious, "The Burn" is bullshit, as the Federation knows of several ways to travel faster than light, other than a warp engine and in the end, Dilithium isn't needed for FTL in the first place, it's only the catalyst in the warp reactor, aka power generation and we have at least one species that is entirely independent from Dilithium in order to power their machinery: The Romulans learned how to create and stabilize micro black holes and routinely use that as a power generator in their starships and to power their version of the warp engine, for example.
OIl is not needed for travel in the present time, we know of other ways, yet all transportation and economy is built around it. If suddenly oil was not available anymore and even worse, if its disparition caused the destruction of all the ships, trains, planes and trucks we use in trade, it would cause an economic crisis like we never saw in the world since the Bronze Age collapse. We could know of alternatives, we know of alternatives, but would we be able to implement them? How to muster up the ressources needed to, let's say, build a merchant fleet powered by nuclear energy if you can't even move them? Or maybe we would get back to coal? Or wind? Whole armies would stop working, governments would collapse. Trade and interractions would revert to a much smaller scale. It would take years to rebuild an economy similar to what we have today.
As for the Romulan singularity core, we know that it was used in the D'deridex-class warbirds during the 24th century. But was it used on smaller crafts? Were the Romulan still able to build such reactors after the collapse of their Star Empire? I mean, controlling a mini black hole must require a lot of energy and ressources. If they are, they would certainly have an asset over any other power. I guess we'll know soon enough, since episode 7 is called "Unification III"...
Deledrius wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:31 pm
That was a great season-opener. Let's hope they move forward instead of looking back. As long as they don't try to make The Burn into a mystery plot, I think the Rebuilding will go well as a story. Leave The Burn as the inciting incident for this setting and no more.
Agreed, although I'm sure the crew of Discovery will try to find out more about how the Burn happened, what I'd like to see is that it's not apart of some convoluted plan by a villain, or that they can't unto the damage and need an alternative solution to rebuild.
I would like to point out here that dilithium has been in use since at least 9th century BC given how the Vulcan monastery at P'Jem is stated to be 3000 years old. 2151AD - 3000 = 849BC
For this to be a natural event, that would mean that dilithium has been used safely for 4000 years and now suddenly a galactic fart has broken it all. For this to be a natural event, it'll be a nonsensical one. Which means ''villain plan'' or ''stupid accident''.
(I mean come off it, I get the whole ''fossil fuels'' allegory they could be going with, especially as TNG ''Force of Nature'' also went with it, but Voyager was meant to have solved that with its nacelle design. I tell you, should have gone with weaponised Omega molecules if you wanted to make warp drive a rarity, it would make a lot more sense.)
It depends on the prevalence of the natural event. If the event only happens once in a few 10,000 years, it is quite possible that dilithium could have been used relatively safely for 4,000 years. I mean, we know that comets can fall on Earth and cause massive extinctions. Fortunately it happens so rarely that human civilization had a chance to rise. But tomorrow we could lose at the cosmic lottery, a comet could fall down and boom! we're dead. Or we could cross a gamma-burst ray, an event that happens once in millions of years. Nonsensical events happen every day. I would favor natural cause or stupid accident over villain's plan, personally...
