I know we've been talking about the possibility they could be looking at a way to erase the Sequel Trilogy. However, what if instead changing the future, this was not the actual future? What if this was a possible future presented by the Veil of the Force?
Thus, all of the series that are spinning off from the Mandalorian could be about people trying to stop this future from coming to pass.
Of course, civil war appears to be on the horizon for Lucasfilm. We'll have to see what faction will win. Personally, I think Disney will side with the faction that is making them more money. That would be the Mando side which is bad news for Kennedy and the Sequel Trilogy side. Even if she's the head of Lucasfilm, she can be replaced easily if she's seen to have no value.
What if the Events of the Sequel Triology Never Actually Happened?
Re: What if the Events of the Sequel Triology Never Actually Happened?
$10 says that they're going to let the furor about the sequel trilogy blow over on its own and eventually get around to side stories relating to it. To be perfectly fair though, what could happen after the sequel trilogy that couldn't happen before the sequel trilogy?
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Captain Crimson
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Re: What if the Events of the Sequel Triology Never Actually Happened?
I just don't buy these rumors they're going to retcon the DSWST at all, or at least via the time travel rumor we heard over the summer. It will be soft retcons like some rumors we hear now. You're dealing with narcissistic and petty employees, is it not past the realm of possibility a lot of these rumors from "insiders," as some are claimed to be, which aren't clickbait or trolls, may be deliberately engineered to shape the online narrative or distract people from something else? Because more than a few insiders also state there is no bad blood between Ms. Kennedy and Mr. Favreau or Mr. Filoni that gets in the way of their working relationship, and I believe that. Glassdoor Reviews actually show that the petty rivalries and competing egos within LF predate the Disney sale, as far back as '08 when the site was made in '07. Disney didn't change that, Mr. Lucas was letting the reins go long before 2012.
Don't put too much stock into this gossipmongering. Mr. Favreau's own words imply otherwise as well as other insiders. There's been a civil war happening there for 12 years, and possibly far further back, the second Mr. Lucas finished with SWEPIII, the vultures began moving in. It's also frankly distressing to spot the sheer disconnect between fandom and creators happening here, where somebody can see one thing taking place, and rationalize it in complete 180 to what was shown. Like how you get some pandering nod to SWL, but it is far altered from the events, planets, characters, and lore we all knew and loved, yet casual fandom insists it's been "recanonized!" Such claims are from people who are far more than the average moviegoer, but involved in geek culture, like us. That kind of disconnect. The same way some people disappointed by SWEPVIII now latch onto SWL as an alternative, but when that means giving up TCW since it was never made to be part of the EU, they refuse to question Mr. Filoni. I don't believe Mr. Filoni is part of this "George Lucas loyalist holdout" faction that's circling around Mr. Favreau. He might be, but at the same time, he'd had no issues in sponging off Mr. Lucas and sneaking edits past him on TCW, there are two confirmed cases of this with probably many more we don't know about, so I just think he's looking to climb the corporate ladder, but it depends on which side, if there is a real civil war coming, wins.
Really, how soon have we forgotten the ATLA pilot? Sokka is made into a sexist pig to be the butt of jokes and Katara, while a great character to develop through the course of the series, nevertheless started out, not really wahman, but borderline. And they ditched Sokka's sexism only half a dozen episodes after the pilot, so you see how long that stuck. For those who don't think that he fits into Ms. Kennedy's "radical agenda," if you believe she has one, then I pity you, sincerely.
We live in an age of sensationalist media. Be cautious. I think too much of this gossip is just an attempt by anxious fans to try and comfort themselves that no, the ST are on their way out, which feels more like what I'd said all along. I would rather try to explain the DSWST rather than erase and ignore them. You think SWL fans are happy we have TSC as part of our continuity? Not particularly. Yet that does get explained. Mr. Hidalgo and Me. Chee are still there. That's what they intend to do, is go on to explain the DSWST. And I personally think it may be tied to Grogu and Ben Solo at Luke's new academy, as we'll no doubt see in the rumored Luke series (though I'm not too crazy about the name of the series). That yeah, Luke was lying in SWEPVIII. To what end we can't say, but then the real issue was killing him off rather than leaving it open-ended. Because TSC built on the poor characterization to add more dimension later on. There is no such chances here now.
Time will tell. But I think DSWC has a steady future before it. Sorry.
Don't put too much stock into this gossipmongering. Mr. Favreau's own words imply otherwise as well as other insiders. There's been a civil war happening there for 12 years, and possibly far further back, the second Mr. Lucas finished with SWEPIII, the vultures began moving in. It's also frankly distressing to spot the sheer disconnect between fandom and creators happening here, where somebody can see one thing taking place, and rationalize it in complete 180 to what was shown. Like how you get some pandering nod to SWL, but it is far altered from the events, planets, characters, and lore we all knew and loved, yet casual fandom insists it's been "recanonized!" Such claims are from people who are far more than the average moviegoer, but involved in geek culture, like us. That kind of disconnect. The same way some people disappointed by SWEPVIII now latch onto SWL as an alternative, but when that means giving up TCW since it was never made to be part of the EU, they refuse to question Mr. Filoni. I don't believe Mr. Filoni is part of this "George Lucas loyalist holdout" faction that's circling around Mr. Favreau. He might be, but at the same time, he'd had no issues in sponging off Mr. Lucas and sneaking edits past him on TCW, there are two confirmed cases of this with probably many more we don't know about, so I just think he's looking to climb the corporate ladder, but it depends on which side, if there is a real civil war coming, wins.
Really, how soon have we forgotten the ATLA pilot? Sokka is made into a sexist pig to be the butt of jokes and Katara, while a great character to develop through the course of the series, nevertheless started out, not really wahman, but borderline. And they ditched Sokka's sexism only half a dozen episodes after the pilot, so you see how long that stuck. For those who don't think that he fits into Ms. Kennedy's "radical agenda," if you believe she has one, then I pity you, sincerely.
We live in an age of sensationalist media. Be cautious. I think too much of this gossip is just an attempt by anxious fans to try and comfort themselves that no, the ST are on their way out, which feels more like what I'd said all along. I would rather try to explain the DSWST rather than erase and ignore them. You think SWL fans are happy we have TSC as part of our continuity? Not particularly. Yet that does get explained. Mr. Hidalgo and Me. Chee are still there. That's what they intend to do, is go on to explain the DSWST. And I personally think it may be tied to Grogu and Ben Solo at Luke's new academy, as we'll no doubt see in the rumored Luke series (though I'm not too crazy about the name of the series). That yeah, Luke was lying in SWEPVIII. To what end we can't say, but then the real issue was killing him off rather than leaving it open-ended. Because TSC built on the poor characterization to add more dimension later on. There is no such chances here now.
Time will tell. But I think DSWC has a steady future before it. Sorry.
Re: What if the Events of the Sequel Triology Never Actually Happened?
It is entirely depends on how well the Mandalorian Spin-offs are received. Right now there are three spin-off shows that are being made, Rangers of the New Republic Ahsoka and The Book of Boba Fett and all are leading into a Climactic Story Event which many think might end up being an adaptation of The Thrawn Trilogy or it could be some sort of Crisis of Infinite Earths type story that does, in fact, reboot the Star Wars Universe.
One thing to keep in mind is that the 50th Anniversary of Star Wars is only 6 years away and Disney and Lucas Film are no doubt going to want to cash in on that. And seeing that there are more people working on the Series that are fans of the series and are including more elements from Legends odds are good that we'll see a huge increase in Older Star Wars Lore making more and more of a comeback in the years to come.
One last thing to keep in mind is that TDST has one major disadvantage moving forward that will likely turn most writers away from doing any future tie-ins, Rise of Skywalker is part of that Trilogy. While it does have it's fans many see it as the worst film in Star Wars and making any sequel to it would require actually using it as a foundation to tell a story.
As of this writing there has been only ONE Spin-off to TDST that took place AFTER the events of said Trilogy... The Lego Star Wars Holiday Special. And while I do think it was good there's a couple of things that should be noted.
It spent most of its time in the past and almost no time in the post ROS time. It hardly acknowledge ROS or the events of TDST as a whole and finally it reestablished the World Between Worlds aka Star Wars' method of Time Travel which also might play a major role in Ahsoka given that the logo shows what looks like WBW.
I've made comparisons between TDST and DC's The New 52 as the two are surprisingly similar, both are reboots to beloved series, both put more emphases on big events, neither was clearly planned which hurt the stories, both try to discard what came before in a belief that the new would erases the old from Everyone's minds and in the end neither could fully commit to the idea of a reboot. And after a number of either failures or mixed stories D&L are seemingly working to bring back all the lore of style of the old while at the same time working to set up the possibility of rebooting the reboot and bring back the old continuity.
In the last few issues of the Superman in the New 52 Clark was given a number of stories that did two notable things, worked to N52 Sups more like his Pre-Flashpoint counterpart and brought back the Pre-Flashpoint Lois and Clark while giving them a son.
While the story arc of N52 Sups was well received and sold well the comic of Lois and Clark was a HUGE hit with both critics and fans, sold like crazy and eclipsed N52 to the point that his very next story would actually kill him off for real and set up the permanent return of PF Superman WITH his family coming with him. The success of Lois and Clark's comic is likely what convinced the higher-ups at DC that not only were there more fans of the Original Superman but it's more then likely that this story convinced to just reboot DC and bring the series back to its roots with DC Rebirth.
And again, I can't help but notice a couple of parallels with Star Wars right now. Luke's cameo at the end of Season two of The Mandalorian (which included a line of dialogue that comes off almost as a Take That at TDST, said line being "Talent Without Training is Nothing") many pointed to this scene as how Luke SHOULD have been written in TDST. And there in lies the point that the upcoming Spin-offs should work to get right.
If ROTNR, Ahsoka and TBOBF are all hits then a reboot may not just be a possibility it might be inevitable. We'll have to wait and see how it all turns out.
One thing to keep in mind is that the 50th Anniversary of Star Wars is only 6 years away and Disney and Lucas Film are no doubt going to want to cash in on that. And seeing that there are more people working on the Series that are fans of the series and are including more elements from Legends odds are good that we'll see a huge increase in Older Star Wars Lore making more and more of a comeback in the years to come.
One last thing to keep in mind is that TDST has one major disadvantage moving forward that will likely turn most writers away from doing any future tie-ins, Rise of Skywalker is part of that Trilogy. While it does have it's fans many see it as the worst film in Star Wars and making any sequel to it would require actually using it as a foundation to tell a story.
As of this writing there has been only ONE Spin-off to TDST that took place AFTER the events of said Trilogy... The Lego Star Wars Holiday Special. And while I do think it was good there's a couple of things that should be noted.
It spent most of its time in the past and almost no time in the post ROS time. It hardly acknowledge ROS or the events of TDST as a whole and finally it reestablished the World Between Worlds aka Star Wars' method of Time Travel which also might play a major role in Ahsoka given that the logo shows what looks like WBW.
I've made comparisons between TDST and DC's The New 52 as the two are surprisingly similar, both are reboots to beloved series, both put more emphases on big events, neither was clearly planned which hurt the stories, both try to discard what came before in a belief that the new would erases the old from Everyone's minds and in the end neither could fully commit to the idea of a reboot. And after a number of either failures or mixed stories D&L are seemingly working to bring back all the lore of style of the old while at the same time working to set up the possibility of rebooting the reboot and bring back the old continuity.
In the last few issues of the Superman in the New 52 Clark was given a number of stories that did two notable things, worked to N52 Sups more like his Pre-Flashpoint counterpart and brought back the Pre-Flashpoint Lois and Clark while giving them a son.
While the story arc of N52 Sups was well received and sold well the comic of Lois and Clark was a HUGE hit with both critics and fans, sold like crazy and eclipsed N52 to the point that his very next story would actually kill him off for real and set up the permanent return of PF Superman WITH his family coming with him. The success of Lois and Clark's comic is likely what convinced the higher-ups at DC that not only were there more fans of the Original Superman but it's more then likely that this story convinced to just reboot DC and bring the series back to its roots with DC Rebirth.
And again, I can't help but notice a couple of parallels with Star Wars right now. Luke's cameo at the end of Season two of The Mandalorian (which included a line of dialogue that comes off almost as a Take That at TDST, said line being "Talent Without Training is Nothing") many pointed to this scene as how Luke SHOULD have been written in TDST. And there in lies the point that the upcoming Spin-offs should work to get right.
If ROTNR, Ahsoka and TBOBF are all hits then a reboot may not just be a possibility it might be inevitable. We'll have to wait and see how it all turns out.
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Captain Crimson
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Re: What if the Events of the Sequel Triology Never Actually Happened?
I don't think LF particularly cares for positive fandom reception, they just want to do what they want to do, even if it's entirely self-sabotaging. These issues predate Disney, predate Ms. Kennedy. They've been going on for at least 12 years with the steady purging of the old guard, Mr. Stover, Ms. Traviss, and far more. Possibly longer than that, given the way LucasArts messed over Obsidian. I've said that before. Check out those Glassdoor Reviews, they are eye-opening, among the comments made being that the executive managers hate SW, that they're becoming less creative and just milking the brand past the point of all reason, it reads like a slow implosion as the years tick by. LF is badly managed at this point, that should be past doubt. But to lay it all on Ms. Kennedy feels like misplaced blame, TBH.
Again, these predate Disney. Just because some online fans are gushing this all up doesn't mean they're going to course correct no matter how positively received it is, and that even does the DSWC a huge disservice. I don't WANT the ST retconned. I want to have LF explain them, maybe a few soft retcons here and there. I think TLJ honestly works way better with the rumors we hear now, assuming they hold any value. That Luke was lying to Rey. I'd add my own piece to this idea. That rather than running there after a failed impulse contributed to the downfall of Ben Solo, he was actually flying his X-wing and Kylo Ren, who had already fallen and cultivated the Knights of Ren with Grogu as the prize for Snoke, is chasing him. After being shot down, this leads to the final fate of Grogu. That either he is killed or snatched up by Kylo Ren, who implants Force illusions into Luke to get him to believe he had tried to murder him, and that all his students have abandoned him, possibly subjugated to Force illusions by Kylo Ren as well. Luke is marooned on the planet and due to some Force crystals that are in the area, he can't use Force telepathy with his friends over long distances. Possibly these crystals sustain the lie he's been manipulated to believe, and so it just builds on itself. He blames himself entirely on a lie, and without a way off the planet, he just gives up, thinking others are more worthy to carry the fight on, but harsh survival takes its toll. This could even, I guess, wave away the milk-drinking scene. This doesn't even need to be shown in TLJ, just do something similar to what TCW was doing recently in S7, which ran concurrently with ROTS. Like maybe the crystals wind up destroyed and so Luke can communicate with Leia again, with the mindscrew effect wearing off, that could dovetail into TROS and tie into the Lor San Tekka stuff. Maybe the crystals are why he went Force OD. Who knows.
It's imperfect and unfinished, but I literally think this could be a good template if they went with something like this to explain TLJ as for Luke's behavior with soft retcons. The old EU was full of this kinda stuff. I don't want the DSWC rebooted or thrown to the side. Like it or not, it does have its fair share of fans despite what you've seen with Luke. I don't want them put into the same boat we were back in 2014. And if the DSWC can't sustain itself over nearly ten years when Mr. Lucas held it for almost 40 years, what does that say about the long-term shelf life of DSW? I'd like to imagine there's a bit more hope to it than that. Rather than just really wishing the sequels go away, brace yourself for not only the possibility, but the strong likelihood you won't be getting the hard retcons you want. Why would you? Ms. Fisher is dead. Mr. Ford absolutely will not come back unless he was paid such a huge sum of cash, there's no way the studios would pay that. Mr. Hamill will likely make his way over to the Luke spin-off that is coming out, manned by Mr. Filoni. Joy. And nostalgia bait is tricky, at least on a cultural level this way. It only works once. And they have such high opinions of their audience's intelligence, don't they? We can't have more SWL continued from Del Rey and Marvel because that's "confusing" to the customers they really want, who don't think, just sit down, eat the popcorn, watch the pretty lights, and consume. So why would they reboot the DSWST for that reason they deny SWL to us?
Again, these predate Disney. Just because some online fans are gushing this all up doesn't mean they're going to course correct no matter how positively received it is, and that even does the DSWC a huge disservice. I don't WANT the ST retconned. I want to have LF explain them, maybe a few soft retcons here and there. I think TLJ honestly works way better with the rumors we hear now, assuming they hold any value. That Luke was lying to Rey. I'd add my own piece to this idea. That rather than running there after a failed impulse contributed to the downfall of Ben Solo, he was actually flying his X-wing and Kylo Ren, who had already fallen and cultivated the Knights of Ren with Grogu as the prize for Snoke, is chasing him. After being shot down, this leads to the final fate of Grogu. That either he is killed or snatched up by Kylo Ren, who implants Force illusions into Luke to get him to believe he had tried to murder him, and that all his students have abandoned him, possibly subjugated to Force illusions by Kylo Ren as well. Luke is marooned on the planet and due to some Force crystals that are in the area, he can't use Force telepathy with his friends over long distances. Possibly these crystals sustain the lie he's been manipulated to believe, and so it just builds on itself. He blames himself entirely on a lie, and without a way off the planet, he just gives up, thinking others are more worthy to carry the fight on, but harsh survival takes its toll. This could even, I guess, wave away the milk-drinking scene. This doesn't even need to be shown in TLJ, just do something similar to what TCW was doing recently in S7, which ran concurrently with ROTS. Like maybe the crystals wind up destroyed and so Luke can communicate with Leia again, with the mindscrew effect wearing off, that could dovetail into TROS and tie into the Lor San Tekka stuff. Maybe the crystals are why he went Force OD. Who knows.
It's imperfect and unfinished, but I literally think this could be a good template if they went with something like this to explain TLJ as for Luke's behavior with soft retcons. The old EU was full of this kinda stuff. I don't want the DSWC rebooted or thrown to the side. Like it or not, it does have its fair share of fans despite what you've seen with Luke. I don't want them put into the same boat we were back in 2014. And if the DSWC can't sustain itself over nearly ten years when Mr. Lucas held it for almost 40 years, what does that say about the long-term shelf life of DSW? I'd like to imagine there's a bit more hope to it than that. Rather than just really wishing the sequels go away, brace yourself for not only the possibility, but the strong likelihood you won't be getting the hard retcons you want. Why would you? Ms. Fisher is dead. Mr. Ford absolutely will not come back unless he was paid such a huge sum of cash, there's no way the studios would pay that. Mr. Hamill will likely make his way over to the Luke spin-off that is coming out, manned by Mr. Filoni. Joy. And nostalgia bait is tricky, at least on a cultural level this way. It only works once. And they have such high opinions of their audience's intelligence, don't they? We can't have more SWL continued from Del Rey and Marvel because that's "confusing" to the customers they really want, who don't think, just sit down, eat the popcorn, watch the pretty lights, and consume. So why would they reboot the DSWST for that reason they deny SWL to us?
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clearspira
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Re: What if the Events of the Sequel Triology Never Actually Happened?
Casual fans are not going to be able to follow a continuity this convoluted and I suspect many fans won't be able to either. I call what will happen right now: they'll reboot the Sequels, and then in ten years time we'll have some call back to them like a Rey cameo or a Snoke cloning lab or Kylo Ren's lightsaber being found.
Reminds me of when they rebooted the James Bond franchise with ''Casino Royale''... but still kept Judi Dench as ''M''... and then unearthed the ''Goldfinger'' Aston Martin in ''Skyfall''. Which is it? Is Craig the same Bond as Connery and Brosnan or not? The evidence from CR would almost certainly point towards this not being the same man and yet there's the DB5.
Reminds me of when they rebooted the James Bond franchise with ''Casino Royale''... but still kept Judi Dench as ''M''... and then unearthed the ''Goldfinger'' Aston Martin in ''Skyfall''. Which is it? Is Craig the same Bond as Connery and Brosnan or not? The evidence from CR would almost certainly point towards this not being the same man and yet there's the DB5.
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Captain Crimson
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Re: What if the Events of the Sequel Triology Never Actually Happened?
While you have a point, remember the PT were much the same way. And I LIKE the PT since I had a cavalcade of ancillary material that helped me appreciate the SWPT more, such as the DLT, and the CW era is that period in the EU's run where the comics are better than the novels and, yes, I will go there, the cartoon series, whether that's TCW or the Microseries. It may be a harsh truth, but this is what's helped keep the DSW movies afloat due to shoddy management. Like all segments of fandom, even the casual fans have now been splintered into many other subcommunities. Because there are plenty of casual fans that are consuming the new content and lapping up the DSWC. Look at all the EU casuals who get hyped up over some new recanonized content, or act like Mr. Filoni is the god of SWL lore. Overwriting the ST is going to be very tricky even within the tangled mess they've created out of fear of alienating the perception of the customers whom they want - old fans and new fans.clearspira wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:48 am Casual fans are not going to be able to follow a continuity this convoluted and I suspect many fans won't be able to either. I call what will happen right now: they'll reboot the Sequels, and then in ten years time we'll have some call back to them like a Rey cameo or a Snoke cloning lab or Kylo Ren's lightsaber being found.
Reminds me of when they rebooted the James Bond franchise with ''Casino Royale''... but still kept Judi Dench as ''M''... and then unearthed the ''Goldfinger'' Aston Martin in ''Skyfall''. Which is it? Is Craig the same Bond as Connery and Brosnan or not? The evidence from CR would almost certainly point towards this not being the same man and yet there's the DB5.
From a cold business perspective, they've had only one giant rip roarin' success, and then mostly mediocre to above mediocre successes, with one below mediocre success (that is how they would no doubt see Solo), and that's is hardly grounds to clean house to the extent I think fandom would be happy with. If Ms. Kennedy actually does leave, then it is her choice, not because of fan outcry or something along those lines, as the narrative would be. Mr. Filoni and Mr. Favreau won't try to retcon the DSWT given the degree to which the DSWC has been built around them as the centerpiece, being live-action production budgets. In the old hierarchy, G Canon, or the movies, always trumped the TV shows, and the claims of a "grand unified canon" are crap. They are following that old hierarchy. The old EU continuity editors, such as Mr. Chee and Mr. Hidalgo, are still there and will definitely assist Mr. Favreau and Mr. Filoni in crafting the future lore for DSW TV, for you can be most assured they would outlast Ms. Kennedy if she walked away. Disney is just too terrified of the bad PR generated from potentially rebooting the ST, which isn't even possible now due to the OG cast dead or gone, on that basis itself, it's "disrespecting" the original actors. It may appear totally schizophrenic based on the many criticisms out there, but that's corporate culture in a nutshell. They won't reboot till at least 2030 at the earliest. Mark my words. But then, could happen. I may be wrong. I just don't see it.
The only real possible justification you could use to claim a reboot is coming is that the merchandising is making it unprofitable, and while it has taken a hit, it's nowhere near to the degree the doomsday naysayers or agenda pushers insist. Disney knows they'll never fail thanks to our culture of corporate welfare, when they come close the government's just gonna swoop in and bail them out. Because if it was only about the merchandising, well... they sure seem to prioritize stiffing the old EU authors out of their royalties rather than putting pressure on LFL to just effing let Del Rey and Marvel make some new Legends, which is really what all the SWL fans are asking for. I know I've been asking for that for six years now, and it's only been a handful of TOR updates and one comic issue, that's it.
Again, pin your hopes on soft retcons, not hard reboots. You're just going to be disappointed. If you were hyped for TFA, remember that. Don't fall for the nostalgia bait just because Jake had a cameo, if that's how you think of him. That accomplished exactly what was needed. Generate buzz, because they need your nostalgia. DSW does not care about what came before. They don't care about canon. They've broken continuity and lore, time after time, and they will do it again. All they care about is announcing "Luke's here, guys! Remember him? You like him, right?" And it gets people to subscribe to Disney+ and support them because it feels good, doesn't it? That's where the trick is coming in, if you hated the ST. This is 2015 all over. I'm sorry if you're too caught up in the hopemongering hype, but it's why I've always really disliked Disney and LF's audience manipulation, it's really been pathetic, and I see nothing to indicate that's changed at all.
I will say, who's the real winner here? Mr. Lucas laughing all the way to the bank.
