Debris Folk Game of Thrones Thread

[clearspira]

GRRM strikes me as a guy that is bored with his own creation.

[CharlesPhipps]

GRRM strikes me as a guy that is bored with his own creation.

I think it's a bit more complicated in the fact that he's stated how much he's written for the Winds of Winter and it's something like 10 normal-sized novels worse and twice the size of his previous huge-ass novel.

The problem is his publishers won't release it in installments or George doesn't want to.

[Mecha82]

GRRM strikes me as a guy that is bored with his own creation.

The problem is his publishers won't release it in installments or George doesn't want to.

I find that sad since it was publishers that demanded that he would write fantasy story instead of writing story based on War of the Roses like he originally wanted to. So he ended up writing fantasy version of War of the Roses.

[Independent George]

They are releasing it in installments - that's exactly what FFC/DWD are, and it's the fundamental problem with both. Narratively, each book basically stops right at or before the climax of the A-plots (Jon Snow's "death", or Mereen still under siege with Dany back in the Dothraki sea). Individually, each one is roughly the first 2/3 of a gigantic novel. Together, they are 2/3 of one humongous sprawl of a story that can't even be called a novel. The first third of WOW basically has to be devoted to closing the dangling plot threads of FFC/DWD - we're looking at around 2,500-3,000 pages to enclose one novel, and that's before we even get to where the next part starts.

Worse, remember that Westeros is roughly the size of North America and Essos is the size of Asia. The novels don't have the luxury of the show's mass teleportation device, so even after the issues at the Wall and Meereen are resolved, you still have to get Dany to (eventually!) transport and supply an entire army some 5,000 miles. It took the Allies the better part of two years to cross the English channel.

That's where we are. GRRM isn't "bored with his own creation" - he's swamped by the scale of what he created. There's plenty of material already written - it's just going to take an awful lot to get from where we are to where we need to be.

[Madner Kami]

That's where we are. GRRM isn't "bored with his own creation" - he's swamped by the scale of what he created. There's plenty of material already written - it's just going to take an awful lot to get from where we are to where we need to be.

Basically this. Martin pretty much said so himself. He allowed things to meander off, in order to create an organically developed story, but it wreaks havoc on the plot.

[clearspira]

I think the worries that he will die before the series ends are justified. He is 70 years old let's be fair.

[PerrySimm]

GRRM is still in good heath and spirits. And even though he hasn't written a mainline book, he did turn in a side story recently. He's probably close to the right mood to get things moving again.

[Mecha82]

I can understand fear that GRRM might die before he gets Song of Ice & Fire finished because that's what happened with Wheel of Time when Robert Jordan died before that. How ever there is good chance that GRRM doesn't die before he manages to finish Song of Ice & Fire. Besides there is no point in worrying what might or might not happen.

[Beelzquill]

on the topic of Martin completing the books or not, I weirdly have mixed feelings.

On the one hand, I have been interested in the series since 2011 and read the books after the first season and I really want a better written ending to clear my palate after the trainwreck of seasons 5, 7, and 8(season 6 is extremely flawed too but it got enough right to not be a terrible for me).

On the other hand, I've become really jaded and cynical when it comes to long running series endings. I think martin just isn't going to be able to coherently end it in two books. The garden has overgrown the lawn to fit his "gardener" method of writing.

[TheStarWarsTrek]

Mixed feelings? Surely it's better to hope that he finishes them? If the ending is satisfying, then good. If not, then we can say "Well Martin didn't stick the landing but at least the earlier books were good". If he dies before finishing, we'll always wonder "what might have been?".

Otherwise you might as well skip the last chapter of every book you read out of fear that the ending might be bad.