Is Last Jedi Luke's actions consistent with Luke's character from the original movies?
- Yukaphile
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Re: Is Last Jedi Luke's actions consistent with Luke's character from the original movies?
He did say that he understands the need to create new heroes for a new generation, but still... that doesn't mean they have to destroy their character.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
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- Makeshift Python
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Re: Is Last Jedi Luke's actions consistent with Luke's character from the original movies?
Vader still had good in him and Luke could sense it. Luke couldn't from Kylo Ren, and if this trilogy concludes the way I think it does, I don't think he'll be redeemed at all.
Re: Is Last Jedi Luke's actions consistent with Luke's character from the original movies?
Right. Of course the old characters should be secondary characters whose job it is to pass the torch. But the only one handled even close to well was Leia (and she did have some issues too) and, well, because of unfortunate circumstances we'll never know how her story was really supposed to wrap up. But Han was regressed and then killed without the 3 being able to have a scene together and Luke was just destroyed.
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Re: Is Last Jedi Luke's actions consistent with Luke's character from the original movies?
@Makeshift Python Wanna bet? The "sequel trilogy" is following the OT practically beat-for-beat, and I know someone shall be redeemed in the final movie. Oh, and there shall be a big new superweapon, of course.
Though I don't buy that interpretation either. Like it or not, the prequels are still part of this timeline, and the Jedi were very cautious about the dangers of foretelling the future. That it's very uncertain. So no, I don't buy. Even if Kylo Ren isn't redeemed, Luke didn't have some "Super Jedi Sense" telling him he was pure evil. An "evil sensor," if you will. It's just the plot bending over backwards to justify him. Like they do with Janeway's bigotry and irrational decisions and plans to commit genocide on Voyager.
Though I don't buy that interpretation either. Like it or not, the prequels are still part of this timeline, and the Jedi were very cautious about the dangers of foretelling the future. That it's very uncertain. So no, I don't buy. Even if Kylo Ren isn't redeemed, Luke didn't have some "Super Jedi Sense" telling him he was pure evil. An "evil sensor," if you will. It's just the plot bending over backwards to justify him. Like they do with Janeway's bigotry and irrational decisions and plans to commit genocide on Voyager.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
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Re: Is Last Jedi Luke's actions consistent with Luke's character from the original movies?
@Sir Will I feel thrilled that they couldn't have a scene together. Finally, new canon fans should feel the frustration Legends fans have felt for... oh, five years.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Re: Is Last Jedi Luke's actions consistent with Luke's character from the original movies?
Well that's just petty and dumb. And you think other Legends fans didn't want to see them together?
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Re: Is Last Jedi Luke's actions consistent with Luke's character from the original movies?
I can't say I'm all that bothered by having the three not together. I'm slightly more bothered we never get a moment between Han and Luke, but that's part of what makes it tragic and work well for me.
But most of all, he murdered Han Solo, which IMO invalidates him from any kind of redemption. I do think it's too bad Fisher passed away, because I could have easily seen a scenario where Rey can't bring herself to kill him but it's Leia that steps in and kills Kylo Ren, because from her point of view Ben died a very long time ago.
Probably would have pissed off a lot of fans if TLJ showed anything, but whatevs.
And I'll be the first to say that Kylo Ren's story was wasted if that happens and feel like a step backwards from the entire point made in TFA and TLJ. One of the things I liked about TLJ was his realization that he needed to ascend his grandfather. His rejection of his helmet reflects that. His murdering of his master in order to become the supreme leader. He's pushing forward into a place Vader never went.
But most of all, he murdered Han Solo, which IMO invalidates him from any kind of redemption. I do think it's too bad Fisher passed away, because I could have easily seen a scenario where Rey can't bring herself to kill him but it's Leia that steps in and kills Kylo Ren, because from her point of view Ben died a very long time ago.
Probably would have pissed off a lot of fans if TLJ showed anything, but whatevs.
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Re: Is Last Jedi Luke's actions consistent with Luke's character from the original movies?
And yet, JJ Abrams is still a Star Wars fan, and I heard he and Johnson clashed over the direction they wanted the film to go. JJ Abrams gave us perfectly packaged Star Wars 2.0, starting with A New Hope ripoff. I'll be shocked if Kylo Ren doesn't redeem himself, or at least stop trying to kill everyone in some way. Maybe he lives and heads off into unknown space. Who knows? I just think Episode 9 is going to be very predictable.
Vader killed Obi-Wan Kenobi. Anakin killed children, which retroactively applied to Vader. They stood by as a whole planet blew up. These are all much larger crimes than the death of one man, even if it is your father.
Hell, some Legends fans have compared Kylo Ren/Rey-whatever-her-last-name-is to Jacen and Jaina, or Bastila Shan and Revan. It's really poorly done.
Vader killed Obi-Wan Kenobi. Anakin killed children, which retroactively applied to Vader. They stood by as a whole planet blew up. These are all much larger crimes than the death of one man, even if it is your father.
Hell, some Legends fans have compared Kylo Ren/Rey-whatever-her-last-name-is to Jacen and Jaina, or Bastila Shan and Revan. It's really poorly done.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
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Re: Is Last Jedi Luke's actions consistent with Luke's character from the original movies?
I'm not talking in-universe. I'm talking about audience perception. Killing a bunch of nameless children is one thing. Killing one of the most beloved characters for the last 40 years is a whole different thing. By killing Han, Kylo Ren can no longer be seen as a character worth redeeming in the eyes of many viewers. He has gone too far. It would be like if Odo had ordered an execution squad that included Quark during the Dominion occupation. There's just no going back.
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Re: Is Last Jedi Luke's actions consistent with Luke's character from the original movies?
Which is why I think him possibly leaving space rather than dying might be what happens.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords