The Cardassian Occupation of Bajor was rather mild

[Steve]

When the stated figures and the clear social impact of events contradict each other on screen, I ignore the figures, because as stated, science fiction authors don't always have a sense of scale.

From their POV I can sort of understand it. You're trying to get out scripts to various shows to make a living, and you're worried about a whole host of things like theme and dialogue and pacing. Doing math doesn't sound nearly as important, so you just come up with a number, and since history has so many numbers to offer and the Holocaust is etched on popular consciousness (and conscience, as it should be!), you use those numbers as a base, maybe double them since "this is SF and all, numbers gonna be a bit bigger!". Voila, you have a number that evokes the memory of the horrible event you want the viewer/reader to compare this fictional thing to!

....and then some asshole nerd comes along and goes "Well, actually, this number and the population level of the planet means the deaths were barely a statistical anomaly!" and you want to reach through the Internet and strangle them for not getting the point. At least, that's how I'd feel, but then again I'm pedantic enough to actually concern myself with the number sounding right, so this is less likely to happen to me.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Well having caught up after seeing Steve appropriate the subject, I'm on another end of the spectrum and think that the nazis aren't so specifically basis for the allegory, and also not the holocaust. If the Cardassians actually did that, then I don't think there would be much gray area for considering them people. We sure never have done that for more than maybe 1-2 nazi soldiers at a time (I think 2 is stretching it).

I think Cardassians are supposed to represent just the civil occupation side of humanity, and you could probably compare the occupation of Bajor with English occupation of India. Deaths from that occupation have said to be about 35 million, while I believe Eddie Izzard said the occupation of the country involved some 500 million inhabitants, though how astute he is to those numbers I'm not sure.

The numbers still don't quite match, but the scaling and general attitude towards Cardassians in a post-colonial position seems considerable. And yeah I don't really know much about how Indians feel about Britain's occupation.

[Steve]

Just to ask, what do you mean by saying I "appropriated" the subject?

[PerrySimm]

Maybe it just seems that way because the 11th post shows up on a new page

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Just to ask, what do you mean by saying I "appropriated" the subject?

I was just kinda joking. Like mod status involvement in a thread giving it distinction.

fun fact: I think appropriate is a autantonym given that appropriating can have a negative connotation somewhat opposite to its meaning to give credence to something.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

The low number of fatalities probably also has something to do with that era of television. If DS9 had been released just a few years later, a lot of those figures would have been much higher in my opinion.

For example, in Homefront the big terror attack that shook Earth to its core killed 27 people. There's no way a post-9/11 show would make that number so low (assuming they were still comfortable going in that direction).

[clearspira]

The low number of fatalities probably also has something to do with that era of television. If DS9 had been released just a few years later, a lot of those figures would have been much higher in my opinion.

For example, in Homefront the big terror attack that shook Earth to its core killed 27 people. There's no way a post-9/11 show would make that number so low (assuming they were still comfortable going in that direction).

Yeah, a lot of westerners had a rather quaint/naive outlook on the world back in the 1990s. It was only when it started happening to us that people were like ''oh, the whole world isn't quite as nice as we have it.''

[Madner Kami]

....and then some asshole nerd comes along and goes "Well, actually, this number and the population level of the planet means the deaths were barely a statistical anomaly!" and you want to reach through the Internet and strangle them for not getting the point. At least, that's how I'd feel, but then again I'm pedantic enough to actually concern myself with the number sounding right, so this is less likely to happen to me.

I usually ignore such numerical discrepancies for the benefit of the story or implications for the world-building (e.g. how big is the Defiant really or how many decks does Enterprise-E have) and the numbers involved are more often than not completely out of touch with our ability to comprehend, so it isn't easy to eyeball. But that doesn't free the author from putting in at least some effort and if the writer considers people pointing out flaws in his stories as "asshole nerds", then the writer can frankly go fuck himself doubly. Once for his obvius incompetence and lack of effort and once for being an ignorant narcissistic arsehole who doesn't acknowledge his own faults in an effort to become a better writer.

[Steve]

....and then some asshole nerd comes along and goes "Well, actually, this number and the population level of the planet means the deaths were barely a statistical anomaly!" and you want to reach through the Internet and strangle them for not getting the point. At least, that's how I'd feel, but then again I'm pedantic enough to actually concern myself with the number sounding right, so this is less likely to happen to me.

I usually ignore such numerical discrepancies for the benefit of the story or implications for the world-building (e.g. how big is the Defiant really or how many decks does Enterprise-E have) and the numbers involved are more often than not completely out of touch with our ability to comprehend, so it isn't easy to eyeball. But that doesn't free the author from putting in at least some effort and if the writer considers people pointing out flaws in his stories as "asshole nerds", then the writer can frankly go fuck himself doubly. Once for his obvius incompetence and lack of effort and once for being an ignorant narcissistic arsehole who doesn't acknowledge his own faults in an effort to become a better writer.

I actually agree with you for the most part, I was just trying to get into the head space of the writers who do this kind of thing. See things from the other perspective. I figured they'd probably argue that they've got to churn out scripts to put food on the table and don't have time to meticulously research fictional settings in order to calculate reasonable numbers.

To which I think the reasonable response would be "then don't use numbers!"

The more recent glaring example of this kind of thing I can think of is the infamous fighting between Karen Traviss and Star Wars fans over her... rather skewed super-minimalist view of how big and numerous a galaxy-spanning army should be. Her response to criticisms was to declare her foes "Talifans" and imply they only hated on her for being a woman. Then she turned around and strawmanned them in a book that doubled down on her claims. Granted, she was also pretty hostile to the Jedi and tried to shoehorn the Mandalorians as some "third party" to the Jedi vs. Sith thing, super-warriors capable of fighting Force-sensitives through their super-warrior training. So some fans undoubtedly took issue with that as well.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Granted, she was also pretty hostile to the Jedi and tried to shoehorn the Mandalorians as some "third party" to the Jedi vs. Sith thing, super-warriors capable of fighting Force-sensitives through their super-warrior training. So some fans undoubtedly took issue with that as well.

Wait just a second, is this what Benicio was supposed to be babbling about in TLJ?