Star Wars Canon Debate

[Karha of Honor]

I'd argue that it's because the Legends Canon was the only real lifeline that the fans had to the franchise considering that Lucas took years to release the prequel trilogy and explain the Clone Wars; until that time the only Star Wars media that fans had where the comics, books, and some bad to mediocre TV shows and movies. Thankfully, the Thrawn Trilogy was able to reinvigorate the franchise but, in some ways Thrawn was to good and Lucas basically flooded the market with so much Star Wars media that the canon became almost impenetrable to the average fan.
Heck, I remember obsessively collecting all of the essential guides and going on Wookiepedia binges so I could understand every aspect of the Star Wars universe and have a leg up on my friends whenever we discussed Star Wars. However, when Disney announced that they where making the Sequel trilogy all that knowledge I had gathered became unnecessary and I admit that I felt disappointed but, I was happy that there would be more movies and that new people would be able to streamline the franchise. The problem was that not everyone felt like that, and the hardcore Legends fandom felt betrayed and developed into a bitter subculture within the fandom and we haven't recovered since.

Are you still happy with the new people and some of the old guard acting like idiots on social media?

[Yukaphile]

@Mecha82 Those in charge treating it like trash doesn't help. They were in such a damned rush to cash in on Star Wars, it should be clear they had no plan in mind for the sequel trilogy. And that also meant they had no plans or inclination to drop the bomb gently when decanonizing Legends, which was what was desperately needed. So in the end, they pissed off everyone because of poor planning, just a "This is going to be really popular, we'll just wing it" attitude. I can accept Legends stories are done. But I also do demand a high level of new stuff to balance it out, otherwise it feels pointless.

[Mecha82]

I do think that there really wasn't anyway that Legends fans would had accepted change no matter what those in charge would had done because that feeling of betrayal that they have. So really no matter how gently they might had dropped bomb that same bitterness would still had been there. That said I do feel that it's not they fault that it happened because there is no way they could had known that Legends fans would react way they have. All those in charge can do is to keep delivering new stories to rest of SW fandom that aren't bitter and are willing to get into that new material while also hoping that it can bring in new fans that would had been overwhelmed by sheer volume of Legends material that was always secondary to movies.

[Elderdog]

I'd argue that it's because the Legends Canon was the only real lifeline that the fans had to the franchise considering that Lucas took years to release the prequel trilogy and explain the Clone Wars; until that time the only Star Wars media that fans had where the comics, books, and some bad to mediocre TV shows and movies. Thankfully, the Thrawn Trilogy was able to reinvigorate the franchise but, in some ways Thrawn was to good and Lucas basically flooded the market with so much Star Wars media that the canon became almost impenetrable to the average fan.
Heck, I remember obsessively collecting all of the essential guides and going on Wookiepedia binges so I could understand every aspect of the Star Wars universe and have a leg up on my friends whenever we discussed Star Wars. However, when Disney announced that they where making the Sequel trilogy all that knowledge I had gathered became unnecessary and I admit that I felt disappointed but, I was happy that there would be more movies and that new people would be able to streamline the franchise. The problem was that not everyone felt like that, and the hardcore Legends fandom felt betrayed and developed into a bitter subculture within the fandom and we haven't recovered since.

Are you still happy with the new people and some of the old guard acting like idiots on social media?

I'm just happy that Star Wars still exists and for the most part I figure that I'll wait another 15-20 years for the fandom to die down. If anything I'm just tired of the cottage industry that's developed on YouTube to cash in on the Last Jedi "outrage" and the pettiness of some of the old guard's membership. Also, the most extreme elements of the fandom have always had a tendency to act like idiots and it won't stop anytime soon.

[Yukaphile]

That's no excuse not to do so gently simply because you're rushing out an attempt to make your own MCU without any of the foundation that went into the actual MCU just to cash in, with no plans in mind. It's incompetent leadership.

[Actarus]

Mecha82 said in the Fighter Showdown thread he was happy that a fighter from Legends made its way into canon. My question for debate is, why are fans getting so hung up on "what's canon?" Why do they want what was shown in Legends to come into the Disney canon? Seriously, I don't get it. Legends still exists, and it's still good. Is this more of the "I hate a lot of the stuff in Legends, so I just want those in charge to cherry-pick the good stuff to bring into the new canon?"

Accepting the new "Disney canon" does not mean hating the old EU. There are lot's of neat stuff in Legends that people loved: Thrawn, Xizor and Black Sun, Dark Troopers and so on. So integrating them in some form into the new canon means that you can still enjoy them in the new setting and that they can even be referenced in movies and other new publications. Of course, it's all fiction anyway. It does not withdraw anything from Legends, but it adds to the official storyline.

When you're sitting side-by-side along hugely divisive works like Last Jedi, really? Ultimately, what is the point of bringing something from Legends into Disney canon? To me, I really hate that. It's plundering 30 years of world-building while doing nothing new. I guess an argument can be made for people wanting to see further adventures from their old beloved pieces of the verse, but regardless, to me the point of a reboot is to do something new. Adding stuff from the previous continuity is lazy storytelling to make a quick buck, and ultimately is not doing anything new. Why not create new fighters, new capital ships, new characters, new planets, new enemies, new everything? I know the answer to the reason for those in charge is that they can't deviate too far from the norm or it would stop being Star Wars and people would hate it, but honestly, that's no excuse. I frankly would wish for something new from Star Wars "canon" rather than bastardizing Legends elements into canon and getting them wrong in the end anyway, like changing the looks of planets or renaming them, seriously.

Oh, but they did create new characters (Ahsoka, Cad Bane, Assaj Ventress, Kanan Jarus, Hera, Ezra Bridger, etc.), new planets (Lothal), and new ships (Arquitens Cruiser, Gozanti Assault Carrier, the Ghost, the Twilight, etc.).

And what I get from your post is that you don't care for Disney canon (or rather plainly hate it), but you certainly care about "Legend canon" :

I frankly would wish for something new from Star Wars "canon" rather than bastardizing Legends elements into canon and getting them wrong in the end anyway, like changing the looks of planets or renaming them, seriously.

[Mecha82]

That's no excuse not to do so gently simply because you're rushing out an attempt to make your own MCU without any of the foundation that went into the actual MCU just to cash in, with no plans in mind. It's incompetent leadership.

You need to ask yourself as Legends fan would you actually had given new canon chance if they had some how managed to gently drop that bomb or would you had hated it regardless. Just like Actarus I really get from your post (and from every other post from you about this topic) that you really seem to hate new canon while you absolutely love Legends to point that it's all that matters.

Maybe I am miss understanding what you meant but your MCU comparison doesn't feel accurate to me since before MCU become thing there were comic books and cartoons that had they own shared continuity with each other and some movies that took place in they own separate universes. In other hand this new SW canon already had basis in OT, PT and TCW cartoon with movies having been only canon and Legends having been it's own separate thing from it. So what they are doing with new canon is adding material to that foundation and expanding it while introducing more people to some of better things from Legends while also same time introducing new things into it as well.

[Karha of Honor]

I'd argue that it's because the Legends Canon was the only real lifeline that the fans had to the franchise considering that Lucas took years to release the prequel trilogy and explain the Clone Wars; until that time the only Star Wars media that fans had where the comics, books, and some bad to mediocre TV shows and movies. Thankfully, the Thrawn Trilogy was able to reinvigorate the franchise but, in some ways Thrawn was to good and Lucas basically flooded the market with so much Star Wars media that the canon became almost impenetrable to the average fan.
Heck, I remember obsessively collecting all of the essential guides and going on Wookiepedia binges so I could understand every aspect of the Star Wars universe and have a leg up on my friends whenever we discussed Star Wars. However, when Disney announced that they where making the Sequel trilogy all that knowledge I had gathered became unnecessary and I admit that I felt disappointed but, I was happy that there would be more movies and that new people would be able to streamline the franchise. The problem was that not everyone felt like that, and the hardcore Legends fandom felt betrayed and developed into a bitter subculture within the fandom and we haven't recovered since.

Are you still happy with the new people and some of the old guard acting like idiots on social media?

I'm just happy that Star Wars still exists and for the most part I figure that I'll wait another 15-20 years for the fandom to die down. If anything I'm just tired of the cottage industry that's developed on YouTube to cash in on the Last Jedi "outrage" and the pettiness of some of the old guard's membership. Also, the most extreme elements of the fandom have always had a tendency to act like idiots and it won't stop anytime soon.

Kathleen K went radio silent and they are in retreat on new projects. It is real outrage.

What are the big before TFA examples?

[Yukaphile]

@Mecha82 I really think I would have, even going with my 2014 mindset. I would have been disappointed it wasn't on the big screen, but then, if they had simply called it a separate but still canon continuity, I probably wouldn't have been boycotting since then. I think their actions since have proven why they managed to not only enrage Legends holdouts, but those willing to give the new canon a chance, in that it's the same reason they didn't drop the bomb gently. Because they rushed it, quickly, to try and make huge money. They know Star Wars makes billions. They were eager, frantic, desperate to cash in and quick at the same time they wanted to build their own version of the MCU, but also threw Legends fans a bone in keeping it around. In the end, I consider it similar to the hugely divisive Goku vs. Superman Death Battle. They tried playing it both ways, saying the "boring, omnipotent" Superman wins but the "murderous" Goku is better, and insulted both fandoms. Same applies here. They eventually insulted ALL their fans. New canon fans and Legends fans, though Legends fans had to put up with it from the start. In regards to the MCU, I mean an overall universe of movies that make lots of money and get critical acclaim. DC is trying to do the same thing. TV Tropes calls it "Follow the Leader." DC and Lucasfilm are trying to follow what Marvel did with the MCU, and are not succeeding.

@Actarus Not enough new, too much changing of the old without keeping it how it was. That's my big beef.

[Yukaphile]

Also, Mecha82, the MCU is its own technically canon continuity, as all parallel worlds are in Marvel.