So I saw TMP at the theater.

[clearspira]

I feel like the Motion PIcture isn't good but it isn't terrible the way I think Insurrection and Nemesis are. Its flaws are mostly in the following:

* The bitterness of the OS cast towards one another shows up in the performances (they don't reconcile until TWOK)
* The failed TNG prototype cast is thrown into the story for no reason.
* The story is a remake of a somewhat underwhelming TOS episode.
* "A nonsentient space probe the size of a car is made into the Death Star but left dumb enough not to understand it is a machine" is honestly a really idiotic plot. The thing about Khan is that he may not actually be that deep of a villain but it is a very human motivation.
* A good portion of the movie is about showing Kirk is dangerously incompetent using technology he's in charge of as the Chief of Staff.
* So is Starfleet with something like as common as the transporter.
* The "money shot" of the enterprise docking that lasts 10 minutes.

I'm not sure how you can say its not a terrible film with a list like that.

[SabreMau]

I meant recently, yeah.

Special event screenings in select cinemas, two showings on September 15 and two more on September 18.
https://www.fathomevents.com/events/star-trek

[Yukaphile]

... I'd love to go see Wrath of Khan. Probably am nowhere close, though.

[CharlesPhipps]

I'm not sure how you can say its not a terrible film with a list like that.

Warmed over leftovers Original Series Star Trek is still Original Series Star Trek.

But when someone ends up melting a couple of people in the transporter, I hope they still have wrongful death lawsuits in the future. The transporter or engineering guys involved need to be brought up on manslaughter charges. That's not experimental technology, that's like someone being killed with a cellphone.

Also, Kirk doesn't know how to use warp drive on the new enterprise?

[Yukaphile]

Give me the worst TOS movie over the best reboot movie any day.

[clearspira]

Give me the worst TOS movie over the best reboot movie any day.

Agreed. And STD.

[Nealithi]

Good article on how Wrath of Khan ruined it for Trek movies.

https://www.tor.com/2013/05/15/our-dysfunctional-relationship-with-the-wrath-of-khan/

Interesting article. And it does seem to get to the heart of how not everyone gets the chemistry of what was/is considered a damned fine outing.

[Yukaphile]

Yo, clearspira, you rarely been here lately. Wanna see my Voyager Rewrite? I've actually done what others haven't and started working on the transcripts before I begin writing. I also am writing an EIGHT-WAY crossover. Wanna see?

[Actarus]

I feel like the Motion PIcture isn't good but it isn't terrible the way I think Insurrection and Nemesis are. Its flaws are mostly in the following:

* The bitterness of the OS cast towards one another shows up in the performances (they don't reconcile until TWOK)

I didn't see that. An interesting information.

* The failed TNG prototype cast is thrown into the story for no reason.
* The story is a remake of a somewhat underwhelming TOS episode.

It's true that the plot is similar to Nomad. However, TMP's scenario is based off the pilot of a new series that aborted. The Enterprise was changed heavily (Discovery's model was inspired by its concept art), and new crew members were introduced.

* "A nonsentient space probe the size of a car is made into the Death Star but left dumb enough not to understand it is a machine" is honestly a really idiotic plot. The thing about Khan is that he may not actually be that deep of a villain but it is a very human motivation.

I don't find it idiotic. The thing is that Voyager 6 became sentient when it met a civilization made of artificial sentient beings. V'ger was then sent back to its creators. It knew it was a machine. The problem is that it could not understand that the "carbon units" would be these creators. It probably thought they would be like itself.

* A good portion of the movie is about showing Kirk is dangerously incompetent using technology he's in charge of as the Chief of Staff.

I would say it is more about Kirk not accepting that he's getting older, and ignoring the fact that "his" ship had been upgraded and that he was not formed to use it. Decker was. It's a classical "old captain vs a young upstart" plot. A lot of the movies with the original crew is about coping with age, death and time.

* So is Starfleet with something like as common as the transporter.

Automobiles are even more common today, and there are car crashes every day. That accident is actually something I liked. It shows that all this technology is not infaillible, that accident can still occur. And it shows us that McCoy's fear of transporter beams are not totally devoid of causes.

* The "money shot" of the enterprise docking that lasts 10 minutes.

Oh yeah... And Spock's journey into V'ger... TPM was made because of Star Wars' success. But what we got instead is Star Trek trying to be like 2001: A Space Odyssey instead. Which was far less dynamic and probably a reason why TPM was not as successful as it could have been...

To me, the main problem with TMP is that it feels too much like a TV episode. The thing is, that is cinema, not television. The more a movie felt like a TV episode, the less successful it was. Because people are thinking "why did I have to shell 10 bucks to watch in theater what I could have seen for free in the TV show." The Final Fronteer and Insurrection are two other movies that have made this mistake.

However, I do not hate TMP. I watch it every time I can when it is aired on TV.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

I think you can make a good case that it's still the most "cinematic" Star Trek movie in terms of visuals, cinematography, and music. People complain about the docking sequence, but honestly I'd love to see it on a big screen.

I agree with Arcturus though, that the big issue (or at least one of them) is that it sells itself as Star Trek's answer to 2001: A Space Odyssey and then tells a story that could be and has been told in a single television episode. The result is a movie that feels rather empty and vacuous. The central theme is exactly the sort of thing Roddenberry in his later years wanted Trek to be about, but there's no nuance to it. It's just not as sophisticated as it wants to be.

Contrast that with The Wrath of Khan. You could argue it looks like a tv movie at times, but the story and themes are befitting a movie.