Controversial Opinion

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G-Man
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Re: Controversial Opinion

Post by G-Man »

Basically, I think that Phantom Menace suffered from the fact that it was set too early. It was not necessarily bad as a movie, but it was just too "a day in the life." It did not really deal with any of the issues that people wanted in a prequel.

Moreover, I think that the primary Jedi/Sith fight lacked interesting motivation. Darth Maul was just there to test his powers against a Jedi. He did not really connect to the rest of the story, which was bad because he was the most "awesome" part.

Finally, the resolution to the battle was underwhelming. Basically, Anakin defeated the bad guys a la "The Pink Panther Strikes Again," accidentally winning the war.

In contrast, I think that Attack of the Clones set up the Clone War, set up how Palpatine took over the Republic (I don't care how he became Chancellor any more than I care how he won his first Senate campaign), and had many action sequences that directly related to the main plot and were consequential.
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:46 am I think it's designated pretty low by different aggregates and people's opinions but in terms of a simple adventure story with action here and there it was pretty entertaining. The Jedi battle arena was a big payoff too.
Revenge of the Sith suffered from two things:

First, Anakin was never really portrayed as a "good" man, but still as a whiny teenager (which was more excusable in Episode II), which makes his fall less tragic.

Second, the plot about Padme being in peril and Anakin turning to the Dark Side to save her lacked enough meat to connect it to the other reasons why Anakin rebelled against the Jedi. That is, it lacked a means by which she was in peril, or a reason why the Jedi rules were an obstacle to saving her. He simply sensed a vague danger, and Palpatine said that the Dark Side could magically protect Padme from... whatever.

Instead, we should have seen situations where obeying Jedi rules prevented easy victories or put people in danger (think "obeying the rules of engagement prevented them from wiping out soldiers who later laid waste to a town" sort of thing), and what pushes Anakin over the edge is a similar situation where, let's say for example breaking a fragile ceasefire is the only way to make certain that Padme is safe (because Jedi rules mean waiting until the other side strikes, and it looks like the peace talks are going downhill).

Basically, the Phantom Menace missed the mark, and Revenge of the Sith was a good film, but had to hit a higher standard, because it had to wrap everything up. Attack of the Clones was a good film and had more modest ambitions, so it was able to meet them.
"You say I'm a dreamer/we're two of a kind/looking for some perfect world/we know we'll never find" - Thompson Twins
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Wargriffin
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Re: Controversial Opinion

Post by Wargriffin »

Lexi Belle likes Attack of the Clones as her favorite star wars film... and She's Porno Batgirl!

Image
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Riedquat
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Re: Controversial Opinion

Post by Riedquat »

Attack of the Clones had my favourite soundtrack of the prequels, don't know if that counts. Great burst of the Imperial March at the end.
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BridgeConsoleMasher
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Re: Controversial Opinion

Post by BridgeConsoleMasher »

Right G-Man. I'm pretty sure you're supposed to know that Ian McDiarmid was Sidious in Phantom Menace, but him playing marionette behind the scenes of conflict didn't make for interesting tension. The Trade Federation vs Naboo comes off like Texas cutting off vital trade to Oregon.

Revenge of the Sith is much more interesting with Palpatine pulling strings as he's literally becoming Sidious, but all of the action comes off as adjunct or something. Anakin fighting Obi Wan is good but general Greevus, Order 66, and Sidious vs Yoda seem like action fodder.
..What mirror universe?
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clearspira
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Re: Controversial Opinion

Post by clearspira »

The problem with Anakin as presented is two-fold: he never comes off as the great friend that Obi Wan spoke of in ANH, he never comes off as someone who fell to the dark side rather the dark side is a continuation.

Think of it this way: imagine if you went into these films not knowing that he was to become Vader. Can you honestly say that it ever comes off as a surprise when he does?

Let us never forget he introduction as a grown man has him chewing out Obi Wan and then pursuing a woman who literally says "you are making me feel uncomfortable". Good job the script was there to save that relationship.

I like Menace for the same reason I don't think Force Awakens is terrible - there
Is potential here. And a few of the new characters are cool.
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cilantro
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Re: Controversial Opinion

Post by cilantro »

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:57 am As an English monk he channeled the original trilogy sage attitude very well. I don't think that amounts to much against episode 2 though.
Liam Nelson (the famous Irish actor) is an English monk?
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BridgeConsoleMasher
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Re: Controversial Opinion

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cilantro wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:06 pm
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:57 am As an English monk he channeled the original trilogy sage attitude very well. I don't think that amounts to much against episode 2 though.
Liam Nelson (the famous Irish actor) is an English monk?
I'm talking descriptively of robed mild-mannered persona that Alec Guinness characterized in A New Hope.
..What mirror universe?
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cilantro
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Re: Controversial Opinion

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BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:18 pm
cilantro wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:06 pm
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:57 am As an English monk he channeled the original trilogy sage attitude very well. I don't think that amounts to much against episode 2 though.
Liam Nelson (the famous Irish actor) is an English monk?
I'm talking descriptively of robed mild-mannered persona that Alec Guinness characterized in A New Hope.
The Jedi were more base on Buddhist monks than anything else. The second closet thing that I can think of would be Catholic monks but English monks weren't even close. Also, I could sewer that Alec Guinness was either Irish or Scottish?
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BridgeConsoleMasher
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Re: Controversial Opinion

Post by BridgeConsoleMasher »

cilantro wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:24 pm
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:18 pm
cilantro wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:06 pm
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:57 am As an English monk he channeled the original trilogy sage attitude very well. I don't think that amounts to much against episode 2 though.
Liam Nelson (the famous Irish actor) is an English monk?
I'm talking descriptively of robed mild-mannered persona that Alec Guinness characterized in A New Hope.
The Jedi were more base on Buddhist monks than anything else. The second closet thing that I can think of would be Catholic monks but English monks weren't even close. Also, I could sewer that Alec Guinness was either Irish or Scottish?
The "jedi" consisted of Alec Guiness of the UK wearing a robe living in a cave. Whether he was British or Irish is beyond me, but a monk is a suitable description for what Alec Guinness as the sum total of the jedi was doing in 1978, and he is more or less English. I wasn't speaking of English monks in proper.
..What mirror universe?
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clearspira
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Re: Controversial Opinion

Post by clearspira »

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:58 pm
cilantro wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:24 pm
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:18 pm
cilantro wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:06 pm
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:57 am As an English monk he channeled the original trilogy sage attitude very well. I don't think that amounts to much against episode 2 though.
Liam Nelson (the famous Irish actor) is an English monk?
I'm talking descriptively of robed mild-mannered persona that Alec Guinness characterized in A New Hope.
The Jedi were more base on Buddhist monks than anything else. The second closet thing that I can think of would be Catholic monks but English monks weren't even close. Also, I could sewer that Alec Guinness was either Irish or Scottish?
The "jedi" consisted of Alec Guiness of the UK wearing a robe living in a cave. Whether he was British or Irish is beyond me, but a monk is a suitable description for what Alec Guinness as the sum total of the jedi was doing in 1978, and he is more or less English. I wasn't speaking of English monks in proper.
OT Obi-Wan clothes-wise is clearly a combination of a Catholic monk and some kind of Middle Eastern desert clothing.

And BTW I am 100% behind RLM here because I too always thought that Obi Wan wore these clothes because he is living in a sweltering hot cave, so it makes sense that he would wear breezy, flowing, white/brown clothes. The moment we learned that he is wearing the official Jedi uniform, and that Obi Wan is hiding on Anakin's home planet whilst wearing said uniform to HIDE from Anakin, this whole thing becomes ridiculous. Its this continuous lack of worldbuilding why people hate the Prequels and for me is far and away above ''I hate sand''.
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