Jonathan101 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:41 pmWell, he needs the speeches to explain to everyone in the city- and to the outside world- what he is actually up to and to make it clear that nobody can leave. He's not trying to be charismatic in that scene so much as he's trying to be intimidating and making sure everybody knows the score, which totally works. If you took out that scene, you'd wonder why people aren't trying to flee.
The true test of his charisma is more that he has followers who are perfectly willing to die for him because they believe in what he is selling and how he is selling it, and things like that.
"Charisma" is ultimately a combination of attitude and performance, but also external factors like how receptive people are to your personality. Whether it is a "thing in itself" is different.
Since you mentioned McCarthy earlier, I'll give you an anecdote- reportedly, critics and audience members who saw the movie "Good Bye and Good Luck", even if they otherwise enjoyed the movie, complained about the actor who played Joseph McCarthy, saying he was too over-the-top and hammy to be believable and taken seriously...except, that wasn't an actor, that was footage of the real McCarthy, the footage that a LOT of people got behind and went on an anti-Communist crusade for. My point being, whether you find someone "charismatic" can be somewhat subjective.
Well that's quite a bit I can work with.
Mind, I didn't say get rid of the scene, but I made it convey just fundamentally what you're saying. He blows up the stadium and says "that's nothing compared to this sucker" and everybody sees. This whole bit about freeing Gotham and disgracing Gordon has no bearing on anything because he is essentially freezing society in its tracks anyway. Like I'm watching him do that, I get that it's adding insult to injury to the sanctity of order post Joker and also freeing convicts at the same time as to emphasize dominance, but that itself doesn't impact the police department, Gordon, or the citizens who looked up to Harvey Dent. At least we don't get any of that last part in the movie.
I think Batman dealing with competent henchmen of Bane would have been very compelling to see. More than his Prestige moment with the Bomb -- all in fashion with Batman being a witty bastard I mean.
That's very interesting what you talk about regarding McCarthy because it's true that movies are much more processed candy then real life often. Aesthetically sweet, but essentially so for the sake of conveying to the audience. I really do think Bane presents himself as the real deal. I was a fan of Hardy for this period of his bulking, so it's quite a spectacle, crafted in Nolan's cinematic tone nicely. In terms of McCarthy charisma though, I mostly have in mind anti-communist mindset that would subsist among general public, but that might be misguided as I'm not brushed up on it as a ethos in time. Really though I thought all that was granted to his name was just because he was the General of the big war. That's what I'm saying Bane missed. He didn't capture the heart of society or anything, and there's never a Hans or Peter Gruber moment where they're really revealed as conmen, but just henchmen I guess.
Really, Hardy could have just cupped his balls the whole stadium scene and it'd be badass.
Power laces... alright.