What Makes the Star Wars Original EU So Special?

[chaos42]

i just think the rule of 2 is stupid. the problem is that thinking one person being more powerful doesn't work if you consider that all that has to happen is for one master to die of something unanticipated and the entire system falls apart. Putting all your eggs in one basket.

But i never read the bane novels but the bits i did hear about and such paint them as massively bad.

I think the real issue is no unified plan, or just making stuff up out of random dialogue from the prequels.

[Captain Crimson]

i just think the rule of 2 is stupid. the problem is that thinking one person being more powerful doesn't work if you consider that all that has to happen is for one master to die of something unanticipated and the entire system falls apart. Putting all your eggs in one basket.

But i never read the bane novels but the bits i did hear about and such paint them as massively bad.

I think the real issue is no unified plan, or just making stuff up out of random dialogue from the prequels.

What did you hear that would make the Bane novels sound so bad? You haven't read them, so you have no grounds to complain about the quality. The rule of two also originated from Mr. Lucas, and other writers filled it in far more competently than he ever could.

This is a big pet peeve I have. People who only read like 10% of the EU, at best, back in the day who think that 10% makes them an expert on the rest of it, when you personally had a few bad experiences and so judge everything based on it. If you haven't read 90% of the EU, which even a dedicated EU fan like myself has not, then you have no room to speak.

EDIT: And before somebody brings up the new canon novels, keep in mind they've only been around for six years. They're still a growing world, and for all the highs and lows, there's still room to improve.

[Wargriffin]

I'd say the Vong are the most inconsistent part for the first part of the NJO due to no one really knowing how Dark to take them going through effectively two soft run invasions before the memo comes in oh right Galaxy rending war like no other.


Hell their force immunity is wildly inconsistent before they decide its just Venom's Stealth to spider sense


but one of the factors is the mix of new and old blood among the writers hell some of these guys would come in and leave with the NJO while one guy in particular would become a prominent fixture and others would go on to great renown among the OEU

really of the old Bantam guard only three Stackpole, Allston and Tyers 'Truce at Bakura' would contribute.

[GreyICE]

I've waxed poetic elsewhere about it, but for me it is absolutely how big it is. Star Trek is ultimately a fairly small universe in many ways. There's the Romulans, the Federation, the Klingons. And... they control most of known space. In some ways the galaxy feels no larger than Earth, with the US/China/Russia. And there's a sense that if you're on one of the respective owner's planets, you'll naturally have them as the highest government. Although the Federation has its amazing legal system and extradition treaties and shit, but ultimately you know whose turf you're on.

The EU had a million inhabited planets, give or take. And at any given time, maybe a few hundred were under really firm control of the Empire/Republic. There are nominally Republic worlds that still haven't gotten around to realizing that the Old Republic fell. Nominally Imperial worlds like Tatooine really aren't. You see the empire land, the empire shoot some people, but as soon as the empire leaves, the planet is no more Imperial than any rebel stronghold.

And there's all sorts of shit in the galaxy. See, Star Trek is a world of technological improvement. The new is better than the old. Star Wars is a civilization that has reached peak technology. This is it. In-universe, this is as good as it gets. Everyone has leveled out here, because this is kind of where things level out. There's ancient tech to be rediscovered, things from civilizations long past, but there are no technological revolutions in the future. 4,000 years ago, technology was virtually indistinguishable from the technology of the series. 4,000 years after, it will be at about the same level.

This isn't stagnation, it means everyone is on even playing fields. You can stumble across a new civilization, and they can be a threat to you, because they've arrived at peak technology too. So you go exploring, but it's full of threats and dangers, because your level of tech has been around forever. There are hundreds of thousands of ancient ships just as dangerous as anything you're floating around in. The ancient stuff could have some forgotten branch of technology that's even an improvement on what you know!

And it gives it a very different flavor. It's a universe where there can be ancient wonders, present dangers, and you don't think that the world has some written conclusion. It's a world of endless possibility, because in thousands of years, it will be the same and different, patterns cycling and changing, but not towards some brilliant perfect future, but another messy present.

There's so much to discover about the universe, and so much to love. Yes, some of the writing is corny, or bad, or whatever. So? It's still just a great and wonderful universe. Not pessimistic, but not utopian, it's a world of hope and possibility, but not one that's moving towards some perfect future.

[Captain Crimson]

Yes, thank you! This to the H. As I'd alluded to above, even I haven't read through the entire EU, and I've been trying to get my hands on any EU content I can since 2014. This is why I find it so annoying when a fan with a limited experience likes to pretend that they are an expert on something so huge they cannot accurately back up their claims that the majority of it is bad. It's just an attempt to discredit the EU for fear it will lead to more EU under the Legends banner, whether by fans or LF.

Is taste subjective? Sure. Does the EU have bad content? Sure. But the very same criticisms can be leveled right back at Disney's management. The EU had, at last count, 308 novels. 308, including game books, YA novels, junior novelizations, and way more. Hundreds of issues of comics, which amounts to 25,000 pages. It is why I can accept they wanted to reboot the series, but by reboot, they meant, "Nah, we'll just take what we like, and adapt movies from those." But if that's the case, why can't you give us more EU under the Legends banner? It's sheer insanity. Just admit you're afraid of it because of how big it is. I feel as if fanfiction has more love put into it nowadays for that reason.

Point is, if you hate TLJ, cool. If you like TLJ, cool. If you hate Mr. Anderson's novels, okay, cool. If you love them, that's also great. Although comments like I'd seen above with somebody admitting they'd felt cringe from secondhand rumors about a novel series they never read which many Legends fans still hold in high regard do threaten to get me triggered, I won't lie. It's so strange, too, since these people can be hardcore geeks nitpicking the IP in other fandoms, yet with SW that's somehow given a pass. It's bizarre.

[GreyICE]

i just think the rule of 2 is stupid. the problem is that thinking one person being more powerful doesn't work if you consider that all that has to happen is for one master to die of something unanticipated and the entire system falls apart. Putting all your eggs in one basket.

Two baskets. The apprentice is the other. They are rarely together, because each sees the other as threats. Besides, like Darth Bane himself, the Sith break the rule all the time - both the master and the apprentice often have secret secondary apprentices.

The real issue is "what does extra dark side users get you" and the answer is "extra enemies". That's why the rule of two.

[Captain Crimson]

i just think the rule of 2 is stupid. the problem is that thinking one person being more powerful doesn't work if you consider that all that has to happen is for one master to die of something unanticipated and the entire system falls apart. Putting all your eggs in one basket.

Two baskets. The apprentice is the other. They are rarely together, because each sees the other as threats. Besides, like Darth Bane himself, the Sith break the rule all the time - both the master and the apprentice often have secret secondary apprentices.

The real issue is "what does extra dark side users get you" and the answer is "extra enemies". That's why the rule of two.

Which we see in the KOTOR games and the DB novels. You got a bunch of power-hungry fanatics all in one place, if you're gonna have more than one, then lower numbers is logical.

[chaos42]

problem is that the sith were all constantly killing each other, not every sith is a power mad psycho. i think the issue is that they are all painted with the same brush and we get this devolving of the sith into nothing but thugs

[GreyICE]

problem is that the sith were all constantly killing each other, not every sith is a power mad psycho. i think the issue is that they are all painted with the same brush and we get this devolving of the sith into nothing but thugs

Yes, pretty much every dark side user descends into an angry, arrogant, overconfident psycho who is convinced that their power in the dark side grows ever greater (as the succumb deeper and deeper) and that their problems and failures are because others scheme against them. A Dark Side user sees all of their failures and setbacks as evidence of a plot against them, never admitting any failures. And who more likely to plot against you than another Dark Side user?

Any experienced Sith is basically using any other Sith to get what they want waiting for the inevitable moment they betray them to secure their future. Each one knows any of the others would turn on them the instant their mad plans fail and they need a scapegoat. Each one knows that any of them would sabotage their genius scheme to take the power and credit for themselves.

And as for why they always take apprentices, despite knowing their apprentice will betray them - who else to see the depths of your power and the height of your achievement except a neonate force user who can see the vast, uncrossable gap between you and them?

[Captain Crimson]

Look at it this way. Our senses go to great lengths to fool us. I'm deep into this study of quantum consciousness and a higher universal enlightenment, not that far off from what Mr. Lucas wanted. And our biology really messes with our consciousness, does it not? But there is still will in the end. We can control not to, as Captain Kirk had said, kill today. We can control not to devolve into whatever banal instincts we have.

The same applies to the Sith, which is also said to be a corrosion. Many Sith are shown to be able to rise above that depravity and be pragmatic. Take Darth Bane. He flat-out talks about how killing for sadistic joy is the act of a fool. Kill for a larger purpose. He's cunning and intelligent, like Vader. That's the main character to the trilogy whose secondhand rumors you think make it sound irredeemable or whatever. If that still has not yet convinced you, a few HR authors look to those novels for inspiration. Mr. Karpyshyn also wrote the script for KOTOR, IIRC, so if you loved that, it's not too far off from that era.