Is Disney finally ditching WOKE politics?

[tyrteg]

- the very concept of Female Thor. It's the guy's name for God's sake!

I'm just going to point out that this point is only made by non-fans. "Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor." That's the rules.

Wielders have included a short-lived "Thunderstrike" who got his own title, Beta Ray Bill, Captain America, and Bor, and a common gag is that after some big fight an EMT or firefighter hands Thor his hammer (having not realized that you're not supposed to be able to lift that). For people following comics, it was actually set off by a very good storyline where Thor becomes unworthy to wield the hammer thanks to Nick Fury (he whispered something in Thor's ear), and has to go on a journey of self-discovery to redefine himself, eventually leading to King Thor we have today.

But then again, most people who natter on about "woke" aren't big on reading.

Nice explanation. But I'm not talking about "the power of Thor" I'm talking about taking his name and adding "Female" to it. Thunderstrike" wasn't "Male Thunderstrike" rofl. If they come with "Mighty Freya" or "Thundergodess" I'd be 100% fine with that. But "Female Thor" is so woke it makes me laugh so hard it hurts. But yeah sure I'm just an illiterate redneck. Sure thing mate.

[tyrteg]

@tyrteg What is the right way?

Treating all fans equally without putting them down or calling them "toxic fans" because they disagree with the movie. E.g. treating fans as paying customers not as children that need to be taught about the right way of thinking.
Focusing on telling a good story first and wondering whether we have "enough" minorities/LGBT/people of diverse skin color later - unless it IS a film about said minorities.
Treating their movies as a product to be sold. Not as a "powerful platform for sending their message" to quote Kurtzman talking about Star Trek.

[GreyICE]

Couple of points:

* Aladdin

* Disney now has a gay led animated series. It just came out.

Aladdin? This guy? I guess he's nonwhite, if I squint very hard and then drop acid.


And yep, it appears they have a bisexual main character. In an animated show. In an obscure location. In 2020. Their bravery truly knows no bounds.

* Disney was also a group boycotted by Southern Baptists for their refusal to disavow gay pride at Disneyland parades in the 90s.

DIsney did a math equation on which group earned them more money. Disavow people, money is lost forever. Baptist boycott, half of them will come to Disney anyway, other half can't afford it. Guarantee there's a slide somewhere of revenue due to pride estimate vs. cost of boycott estimate that was presented to a table.

It's not like they're bigots (outside of ol' Walt). It's just that more than almost any company that operates in a creative space, they refuse to see people. Their treatment of animators and creators as cogs in their machine is legendary. The only color they see is green, and humans are machines to generate green or be discarded.

[GreyICE]

Nice explanation. But I'm not talking about "the power of Thor" I'm talking about taking his name and adding "Female" to it. Thunderstrike" wasn't "Male Thunderstrike" rofl. If they come with "Mighty Freya" or "Thundergodess" I'd be 100% fine with that. But "Female Thor" is so woke it makes me laugh so hard it hurts. But yeah sure I'm just an illiterate redneck. Sure thing mate.

Yes, that was the first time he became unworthy, and as part of his soulsearching he abandoned the name Thor in its entirety. It makes more sense when you find out what Nick Fury said to him - which was planned from the second he became unworthy - as you realize he was abandoning not just his name, but his role as a god entirely.

But you don't read the comic at all and you don't give a flying fuck about the character, so why the hell should I explain it to you?

P.S. Jane didn't go by "female Thor". It was just Thor. You added "female".

[McAvoy]

Couple of points:

* Aladdin

* Disney now has a gay led animated series. It just came out.

Aladdin? This guy? I guess he's nonwhite, if I squint very hard and then drop acid.


And yep, it appears they have a bisexual main character. In an animated show. In an obscure location. In 2020. Their bravery truly knows no bounds.

* Disney was also a group boycotted by Southern Baptists for their refusal to disavow gay pride at Disneyland parades in the 90s.

DIsney did a math equation on which group earned them more money. Disavow people, money is lost forever. Baptist boycott, half of them will come to Disney anyway, other half can't afford it. Guarantee there's a slide somewhere of revenue due to pride estimate vs. cost of boycott estimate that was presented to a table.

It's not like they're bigots (outside of ol' Walt). It's just that more than almost any company that operates in a creative space, they refuse to see people. Their treatment of animators and creators as cogs in their machine is legendary. The only color they see is green, and humans are machines to generate green or be discarded.

I kinda remember reading somewhere that Aladdin started out 'tan' and became more white as the movie went along. I haven't seen the movie in years outside the live action one.

Anyway, one thing I can agree with, is stop insulting fans that don't like the movie or product you make. Even if a small part of them have some sort of sexist or racist view of it.

The Ghostbusters 2016 director constantly does this. Even now.

[tyrteg]

Yes, that was the first time he became unworthy, and as part of his soulsearching he abandoned the name Thor in its entirety. It makes more sense when you find out what Nick Fury said to him - which was planned from the second he became unworthy - as you realize he was abandoning not just his name, but his role as a god entirely.

But you don't read the comic at all and you don't give a flying fuck about the character, so why the hell should I explain it to you?

P.S. Jane didn't go by "female Thor". It was just Thor. You added "female".

Oh trust me. I didn't come up with that title. Disney marketing did. Look at Screenrant, Buzffeed or any other mainstream media: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tanyachen/natalie-portman-female-thor

[GreyICE]

Oh trust me. I didn't come up with that title. Disney marketing did. Look at Screenrant, Buzffeed or any other mainstream media: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tanyachen/natalie-portman-female-thor

Oh god, you read Buzzfeed. That explains so much.

If your first exposure to a storyline is hearing about it in Buzzfeed for a movie that didn't even come out yet, and which will probably not cover the events of the comics at all (as there is no Gor, Nick Fury isn't going to fight the Avengers, and Thor's power isn't tied to his hammer) and that's fueled a giant outrage machine in your head... maybe you need to take a few deep breaths and relax?

My bet is Thor is lost or killed, and Jane and Loki end up teaming up to find him because of insert crisis (Gor the God Butcher could actually work for that - he's a pretty classic Thor villain). That'd be right up Taika Waititi's alley, and could be quite funny. Tom Hiddleston and Natalie Portman riffing on each other would be gold, and I think he'd enjoy having a new dynamic for comedy.

[Winter]

@tyrteg What is the right way?

Treating all fans equally without putting them down or calling them "toxic fans" because they disagree with the movie. E.g. treating fans as paying customers not as children that need to be taught about the right way of thinking.
Focusing on telling a good story first and wondering whether we have "enough" minorities/LGBT/people of diverse skin color later - unless it IS a film about said minorities.
Treating their movies as a product to be sold. Not as a "powerful platform for sending their message" to quote Kurtzman talking about Star Trek.

While stories are products to be sold every story is also platform for sending a message. Let's take a look at two of the greatest Political Propaganda stories ever made, Richard III and Macbeth. Yeah, these plays, written by William Shakespeare are political Propaganda plays meant to bolster up the then rulers of Shakespeare's time. Whether Shakespeare truly believed in said royalty is unknown but he did write these plays and staged them and sold them.

Every story ever written is written with the writers political view point in mind and there are no exceptions to this. And in regards to the other point, that stories are just products to be sold, products are sold to however buys them.

One of my favorite shows is She-Ra and the Princesses pf Power who's show runner is a lesbian who wrote the show to be about two girls trying to find the courage to tell each other that they loved one another and who's final antagonist is inspired by cult leaders. That is a show about as Woke as you can get, with a collection of writers who all have a message to send AND it's a main stream hit with critics and audience alike.

This show also HEAVILY explores abusive relationships, politics and redemption and the show is often praised for those elements.

Saying stories shouldn't have messages from the writer is like saying they shouldn't have plot or characters. Everyone who writes WANTS to share their ideas and in those ideas are their political, religious and social beliefs. Can these messages become to obvious and hamfisted? Is there a movie called Reefer Madness? But every story has these elements, some are just better at conveying them then others.

[PapaPalpatine]

Even if the rumors are true (and that's a big if), it's too late for that now.

[GreyICE]

I kinda remember reading somewhere that Aladdin started out 'tan' and became more white as the movie went along. I haven't seen the movie in years outside the live action one.

Anyway, one thing I can agree with, is stop insulting fans that don't like the movie or product you make. Even if a small part of them have some sort of sexist or racist view of it.

The Ghostbusters 2016 director constantly does this. Even now.

I'd agree don't insult people who don't like your stuff, it at best makes you look petty and hypersensitive. Not that creators are not famously both extremely attached to their art and very sensitive of criticism (counting the number of film critics who have been killed by proxy in movies is hard to do, it's no few) but it makes you look like a sad person. There's been a few authors who have had arguments with internet reviewers, and it just never is a good look. I mean randoms on the internet are randoms, no matter how stupid, you're making a movie/writing a book/etc. and they're never going to manage that.