Star Trek casts its first non-binary and transgender actors

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Stamets and the other guy as a couple are a regular facet of Trek having relationship drama. They have the most written chemistry for a pair in Discovery.

[McAvoy]

Stamets and the other guy as a couple are a regular facet of Trek having relationship drama. They have the most written chemistry for a pair in Discovery.

I couldn't remember their names to save my life. Then again outside Michael and Saru hmi can't remember the others either.

With that said, they wrote them as a relationship. There is nothing specially different in how you would write about that relationship. With the exception of of them being a gay couple.

Come to think of it, they did give alot of screen time to the others with the exception of robot lady. She actually had an interesting concept that was so short lived.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I just wonder how they will do it:

1.Just make normal characters that are a normal part of the show that just happen to be whatever.

Or

2.Make then super special characters that have huge special "other" plots so the whole show revolves around how "different" they both are and it will need to be pointed out in nearly each second of screen time. After all, they can't just "be" something without constantly telling us. If the character just say scrubs a warp coil, you would not know all the details of their personal life unless they go way out of the way to say "Hey, I'm X" all the time.

Wonder if they will get more screen time then all the bridge crew that have been around for two seasons? Like "move out of the way for the special characters"

Pull up a seat. We've been expecting you.

I also look forward the the abundant butthurt from fanboys who are convinced this is a woke defilement of their oh-so-sacred franchise.

Maybe you could rephrase that as "I'm okay with you being gay as long as you're not in my face about it"?

[clearspira]

To be fair, that was always the argument about gay characters on the show before the Abrams universe was created in 2009. That in the 23rd or 24th century moved on so much that it would be a complete non issue. Assuming they would have been showed of course.

Pretty much how Discovery for the most part protrayed their resident gay couple.

Thats the thing: a liberal society of total inclusion which the Star Trek universe was MEANT to be, there shouldn't even be a word for homosexual any more much less a flag because this label is an obsolete term. There is love - and that's it. Same as being transgender. You are what you are - and that's it.

One LGBT example that everyone forgets is the one where a Ferengi woman passes herself off as a man and falls in love with Quark. Jadzia notices this (whilst still believing her to be a man) and is casual as hell when telling her that she should go and tell Quark what she thinks. That is a great episode and it always was a shame that we never saw her again.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I just wonder how they will do it:

1.Just make normal characters that are a normal part of the show that just happen to be whatever.

Or

2.Make then super special characters that have huge special "other" plots so the whole show revolves around how "different" they both are and it will need to be pointed out in nearly each second of screen time. After all, they can't just "be" something without constantly telling us. If the character just say scrubs a warp coil, you would not know all the details of their personal life unless they go way out of the way to say "Hey, I'm X" all the time.

Wonder if they will get more screen time then all the bridge crew that have been around for two seasons? Like "move out of the way for the special characters"

We were so spoiled with Captain Sisko in hindsight. So rarely did his race ever matter at all or even come up, and when it did, it was often really well done. He was just a man who happened to be black rather than a man with black as a defining trait.

We were so spoiled with Captain Sisko, full stop. Expecting other shows to live up to DS9's writing standards is a tad unreasonable.

That is how it should be done. But of course, a trans character done like that would be someone that we the viewer doesn't actually know is trans because he/she is passing so well - and we cant have that. Where are the back patting points?

So you are okay with differences, so long as they are hidden and not talked about. Race, transgender identity, and other such divergences from the norm are to be given the same treatment Rick Burman gave to music?

[clearspira]

I just wonder how they will do it:

1.Just make normal characters that are a normal part of the show that just happen to be whatever.

Or

2.Make then super special characters that have huge special "other" plots so the whole show revolves around how "different" they both are and it will need to be pointed out in nearly each second of screen time. After all, they can't just "be" something without constantly telling us. If the character just say scrubs a warp coil, you would not know all the details of their personal life unless they go way out of the way to say "Hey, I'm X" all the time.

Wonder if they will get more screen time then all the bridge crew that have been around for two seasons? Like "move out of the way for the special characters"

Pull up a seat. We've been expecting you.

I also look forward the the abundant butthurt from fanboys who are convinced this is a woke defilement of their oh-so-sacred franchise.

Maybe you could rephrase that as "I'm okay with you being gay as long as you're not in my face about it"?

You basically ignored everything he said. Let me spell it out for you: ''I want these characters to actually be characters and not just ''the trans character'' or ''the non-binary character''. I want these characters to actually have a personality and not have every plot revolve around this one point like so many failed LGBT characters have in the past.''

Sisko is black. He had a super special episode where he went back to the 1950s. It is a fan favourite episode. Why? Because Sisko is also SO MUCH MORE than just ''the black captain''. He is developed, layered and complex. Contrast to Janeway who very much was ''the woman captain'' until the writers got the hint and gave her PTSD to explain away her many problems.

[clearspira]

I just wonder how they will do it:

1.Just make normal characters that are a normal part of the show that just happen to be whatever.

Or

2.Make then super special characters that have huge special "other" plots so the whole show revolves around how "different" they both are and it will need to be pointed out in nearly each second of screen time. After all, they can't just "be" something without constantly telling us. If the character just say scrubs a warp coil, you would not know all the details of their personal life unless they go way out of the way to say "Hey, I'm X" all the time.

Wonder if they will get more screen time then all the bridge crew that have been around for two seasons? Like "move out of the way for the special characters"

We were so spoiled with Captain Sisko in hindsight. So rarely did his race ever matter at all or even come up, and when it did, it was often really well done. He was just a man who happened to be black rather than a man with black as a defining trait.

We were so spoiled with Captain Sisko, full stop. Expecting other shows to live up to DS9's writing standards is a tad unreasonable.

That is how it should be done. But of course, a trans character done like that would be someone that we the viewer doesn't actually know is trans because he/she is passing so well - and we cant have that. Where are the back patting points?

So you are okay with differences, so long as they are hidden and not talked about. Race, transgender identity, and other such divergences from the norm are to be given the same treatment Rick Burman gave to music?

Go on then, explain to me how a realistic all-inclusive society would actually work. Do you honestly think that a society that treats LGBT folk exactly like cis/hetero folk would still be marching through the streets waving flags? My point is that being LGBT would be invisible BECAUSE it is so accepted not because it is being ignored. No one needs to point it out any more.

[Link8909]

Go on then, explain to me how a realistic all-inclusive society would actually work. Do you honestly think that a society that treats LGBT folk exactly like cis/hetero folk would still be marching through the streets waving flags? My point is that being LGBT would be invisible BECAUSE it is so accepted not because it is being ignored. No one needs to point it out any more.

Personally I wouldn't say that it's invisible as I feel that this should be acknowledged and invisible implies ignoring this, I think normalised is a better word, that people that are in a Lesbian/Gay relationship have the same relationship highs and lows as anyone else, I really like the relationship and stories between Lieutenant Stamets and Doctor Culber because they felt like a real couple, same with people that are Transgendered or Binary in relationships or just feel comfortable with themselves.

And I like that in Star Trek peoples cultures and heritage are not just ignored but even celebrated, like Chekov talking about how Russians invented nearly everything, or how Captain Sisko is from New Orleans to name a few, it's sort of like how Lieutenant Worf practises Klingon rituals or how Major Kira Nerys worships the Prophets.

For me personally, one of the things Star Trek is about is acknowledging and even celebrating our own differences while treating each other with the same dignity and respect as we would want for ourselves.

[Makeshift Python]

Go on then, explain to me how a realistic all-inclusive society would actually work. Do you honestly think that a society that treats LGBT folk exactly like cis/hetero folk would still be marching through the streets waving flags? My point is that being LGBT would be invisible BECAUSE it is so accepted not because it is being ignored. No one needs to point it out any more.

So invisible that somehow the Rick Berman productions avoided any hint of gays because those shows were produced by homophobic pieces of shit.

Here's a way to convey gays existing in Star Trek without being "in your face". In the episode "The Cage" there's a shot of Captain Pike walking down the corridors to his personal quarters, and passing by him is a couple wearing casual clothing. This was a way to show how causal the crew appears on their off-hours. It's actually an aspect I wish we saw more of in subsequent shows, especially VOYAGER. You could take that example, replace the couple with a gay couple holding hands as the captain passes by, and there you go. You've acknowledged in just a few seconds that gays exist in Star Trek in way that's as normal as hetero couples. No pat in the backs. No dialogue explicitly pointing it out. Just classic visual storytelling, saying to viewers "this is what the 24th century is".

In fact, there was going to be a scene featuring a gay couple in TNG's "The Offspring" where Lal is observing a couple in Ten Forward enjoying a date, holding hands, and then kissing. Obviously, that didn't happen in the final product because an a producer objected to it, and that producer was David Livingston. So instead it was changed to a hetero couple. Thankfully, when Whoppi Goldberg was supposed to deliver the line "when a man and woman fall in love", she changed it on set to "when two people fall in love".

So there you have it. An opportunity for TNG to show how inclusive it was by merely featuring a gay couple in the background at Ten Forward, but homophobes decided to nix that.

[Link8909]

I honestly don't mind how much any Star Trek series shows inclusivity, whether it's just two guys holding hands like you say or in the case of Discovery having a guy in a wheelchair rolling about the corridors, or again with Discovery having the two main characters be in a same sex relationship with all the highs and lows that come with any relationship, I think these should be acknowledge, like the scene Doctor Culber and Commander Jett Reno both talking about their weddings with their Husband and wife respectively, which was a very real and human moment that I love.

I want the character to say their Gay or Lesbian or Transgendered or Binary, I'd like to see more of both simple background characters and main characters, and simple saying that isn't being in you face about it, nor is it patting oneself on the back, I'd rather have characters talk about themselves and acknowledge that part of themselves than to not show it at all like during the TNG era, or saying after the fact that someone is this without showing it onscreen like with J.K. Rowling.

And what I don't want to see and what should be avoided is having any character be played as a negative stereotype of whom they are playing as, the reason I and many other aren't happy with Commander Chakotay isn't the fact that he practises Native American rituals, it's the fact that what he does is completely wrong and not a proper representation and plays into the stereotype of Native Americans, or having Ensign Harry Kim quote Chinese proverbs even though his last name is Korean.

I personally think that Discovery have been really good with not doing this, like I said the relationship and stories between Lieutenant Stamets and Doctor Culber are great because they felt like a real couple, and on a personal note as someone who is Autistic, specifically Aspergers, I personally find Ensign Tilly absolutely fantastic, I see a lot of myself and my own issues through her and like that while awkward most times is still a capable officer.