Is CBS Star Trek going to be a household name this generation.

[Thebestoftherest]

Interesting.

[Captain Crimson]

Interesting.

Armchair intellectualism FTW!

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

My prediction is that you'll eventually have really good ideas amalgamated between the several live action shows they have produced simultaneously. Maybe not with these shows in particular, but they're very likely to find something really engaging with how they're popping up shows with quite a bit of effort to get it back into homes.

[Zargon]

No. Not even close.

Both the OS and TNG were generic shows, really made for the average TV viewer. The depth was there, but the famework of the show as easy and simple for Ma and Pa Kettle to watch. Starting with DS9, Star Trek became more for the Fans, not the public at large. The "average" viewer that "dislikes" sci fi might only vaguely know there are other Trek shows.

Discovery and Picard both have the audience of hate: did you hate all Trek before this as it was So Wrong? Watch our cool new politically correct woke show! Do you love the 'pew pew' of Star Wars...wow, watch our new Trek with more 'pew pew's then Star Wars. Oh and we got a super cool cast of non white non males too...woo hoo!

But....on top of that. The days of "household" knowledge of shows is long gone. With like, er, 50 shows every six months or so....and a huge number of genre shows...there is way too much for "normal" viewers to keep track of.

[Captain Crimson]

No. Not even close.

Both the OS and TNG were generic shows, really made for the average TV viewer. The depth was there, but the famework of the show as easy and simple for Ma and Pa Kettle to watch. Starting with DS9, Star Trek became more for the Fans, not the public at large. The "average" viewer that "dislikes" sci fi might only vaguely know there are other Trek shows.

Discovery and Picard both have the audience of hate: did you hate all Trek before this as it was So Wrong? Watch our cool new politically correct woke show! Do you love the 'pew pew' of Star Wars...wow, watch our new Trek with more 'pew pew's then Star Wars. Oh and we got a super cool cast of non white non males too...woo hoo!

But....on top of that. The days of "household" knowledge of shows is long gone. With like, er, 50 shows every six months or so....and a huge number of genre shows...there is way too much for "normal" viewers to keep track of.

Ah, but they can't survive by only making 'em for the fans, don't ya know? Why not ask how SW is doing right now with that mindset?

[Thebestoftherest]

mandalorian, the last season of clone wars, all seems to be going well.

[clearspira]

No. Not even close.

Both the OS and TNG were generic shows, really made for the average TV viewer. The depth was there, but the famework of the show as easy and simple for Ma and Pa Kettle to watch. Starting with DS9, Star Trek became more for the Fans, not the public at large. The "average" viewer that "dislikes" sci fi might only vaguely know there are other Trek shows.

Discovery and Picard both have the audience of hate: did you hate all Trek before this as it was So Wrong? Watch our cool new politically correct woke show! Do you love the 'pew pew' of Star Wars...wow, watch our new Trek with more 'pew pew's then Star Wars. Oh and we got a super cool cast of non white non males too...woo hoo!

But....on top of that. The days of "household" knowledge of shows is long gone. With like, er, 50 shows every six months or so....and a huge number of genre shows...there is way too much for "normal" viewers to keep track of.

Ah, but they can't survive by only making 'em for the fans, don't ya know? Why not ask how SW is doing right now with that mindset?

TFA was very much made with the fans in mind. Why do you think that it follows ANH so closely instead of making something original? No non-Wars fan would give two shits that Rey finds Anakin's lightsaber, or that the Millennium Falcon is in this film, or that X-Wing's are back. And yet this film sold like hot bread. Why? Because the FANS were hungry for more Star Wars. The base was united and ready for more.

And then Rian Johnson - who fully admits knew nothing about Star Wars before he got the job - decided that Luke should throw his father's lightsaber over his shoulder and become a cowardly old hobo. Suddenly the fans weren't so keen on this any more.

So no, you can make a film for the fans and win perfectly fine if you don't get someone who knows bugger all about the product they are making and wants to make it a vessel for their politics.

[Captain Crimson]

No. Not even close.

Both the OS and TNG were generic shows, really made for the average TV viewer. The depth was there, but the famework of the show as easy and simple for Ma and Pa Kettle to watch. Starting with DS9, Star Trek became more for the Fans, not the public at large. The "average" viewer that "dislikes" sci fi might only vaguely know there are other Trek shows.

Discovery and Picard both have the audience of hate: did you hate all Trek before this as it was So Wrong? Watch our cool new politically correct woke show! Do you love the 'pew pew' of Star Wars...wow, watch our new Trek with more 'pew pew's then Star Wars. Oh and we got a super cool cast of non white non males too...woo hoo!

But....on top of that. The days of "household" knowledge of shows is long gone. With like, er, 50 shows every six months or so....and a huge number of genre shows...there is way too much for "normal" viewers to keep track of.

Ah, but they can't survive by only making 'em for the fans, don't ya know? Why not ask how SW is doing right now with that mindset?

TFA was very much made with the fans in mind. Why do you think that it follows ANH so closely instead of making something original? No non-Wars fan would give two shits that Rey finds Anakin's lightsaber, or that the Millennium Falcon is in this film, or that X-Wing's are back. And yet this film sold like hot bread. Why? Because the FANS were hungry for more Star Wars. The base was united and ready for more.

And then Rian Johnson - who fully admits knew nothing about Star Wars before he got the job - decided that Luke should throw his father's lightsaber over his shoulder and become a cowardly old hobo. Suddenly the fans weren't so keen on this any more.

So no, you can make a film for the fans and win perfectly fine if you don't get someone who knows bugger all about the product they are making and wants to make it a vessel for their politics.

I would dispute that. Ms. Kennedy's justification for throwing out the EU and not adapting it were that they wanted to maximize "creative freedom" and leave some surprise, and yet they lift so much from the EU (from minor examples like taking the name of "Kybo Ren" and making it "Kylo Ren," and even a character named Finn, to the glaring huge examples like derivations of the twins, whose names were only changed because Disney doesn't wanna shill royalties to the old EU authors), the only people who wouldn't have been surprised were those who were in a coma from 1977 to 2015. And while it can be engaging and fun, it's hardly as original as the older EU, thus there is no "creative freedom" here. In a schizophrenic way, they did adapt the post-Endor storyline, so why not get in an experienced director who is good at adapting books to movies, like Mr. Spielberg, rather than a spineless Hollywood insider like Mr. Abrams? Besides that, as you noted, that it takes so much from ANH is further testament that her words do not reflect the reality.

And if they were making SW for the fans, why don't they actually continue the EU under the Legends banner? We put up a billboard about that! They deliberately misunderstand what the fans are asking for, treating it as "more recanonization" as a way to blow us off and further turn the new-canon fans against us, and we don't want more EU elements within the DSW, as that is really just hindering their creativity, as we've seen play out. The flip side is we also don't want SWL TV shows or movies or even video games, just more books and comics, of which Del Rey and Marvel are willing to do that, yet we only got Marvel #108 since they were able to spin it from the "anniversary" angle. Past that, LF would have denied them that under any other circumstance. Many older EU authors, such as Mr. Karpyshyn, are still willing to write for the brand, yet they will not let him. It's business policies like this that are entirely self-sabotaging and why the franchise has been damaged very hard.

For every six or twelve new-canon books or comics, you could release at least one for SWL. That's smart business as it would make the older fans happy. But they are not making it for us, are they? It's kids, newcomers, and casuals. I've heard people defend this practice by saying they need to grow the audience, and use that same talking point for ST. More like DSW wants to remake itself in their own image.

[Deledrius]

I doubt it. There's still nothing in these shows to appeal to a wider audience, no matter how much they try to piss off the fans of the franchise to do it. That's what you need to achieve that sort of recognition. Meanwhile, so much of the advertising on the official FB page and twitter feeds, as well as the "official" fansites, is constantly pushing the bad fanwank and "easter eggs" nonsense that is going to push away non-fans who might see it. As a fan, the sickening amount of pandering in that sort of junk pushes me away, too.

I really don't think anyone at CBS has a clue what they're doing with this franchise aside from hoping something sticks. Maybe they'll find it, but right now, I doubt any of this is going to be more than a footnote in the franchise.

[McAvoy]

No. Not even close.

Both the OS and TNG were generic shows, really made for the average TV viewer. The depth was there, but the famework of the show as easy and simple for Ma and Pa Kettle to watch. Starting with DS9, Star Trek became more for the Fans, not the public at large. The "average" viewer that "dislikes" sci fi might only vaguely know there are other Trek shows.

Discovery and Picard both have the audience of hate: did you hate all Trek before this as it was So Wrong? Watch our cool new politically correct woke show! Do you love the 'pew pew' of Star Wars...wow, watch our new Trek with more 'pew pew's then Star Wars. Oh and we got a super cool cast of non white non males too...woo hoo!

But....on top of that. The days of "household" knowledge of shows is long gone. With like, er, 50 shows every six months or so....and a huge number of genre shows...there is way too much for "normal" viewers to keep track of.

Nope.

First off, yes TOS and TNG had episodic formats that didn't require to watch previous episodes to follow like DS9. But your examples also involve Voyager as well.

DS9 was intentionally made to break the mold of the previous two seasons. New Trek shows after TNG were made because of the fans and for the fans, this isn't a surprise.

Now Discovery and Picard you can easily call the Shows of Hate: because it has things that you hate. Simple as that.

Of course what you say is an opinion of your own personal beliefs versus my own.