Should RPG's Include Non-Binary Options?

[clearspira]

In any game you make the character I have no problem with it. As long as it is not forced down my throat as an agenda. Because agenda laden games wreck it for me by not being a good story or action piece.
That said, I think it will take a while before it really can work. I look at the hand wringing for Mass Effect to being a sex simulator. (Later taken back when someone actually got to the scene) Or the 'controversy' in SWtOR having a possible same sex pairing on one world in one mission chain.
So it may be a while.
Personally I think folks should get over it. But that is not how society moves.

To switch series for moment She-Ra and the Princesses of Power is, like, a SUPER Gay show. Just about every character is either gay or bi and the design of that show backs up this mentality and most of the people who worked on this show are either LGBT or Supports of the LGBT community. There is nothing subtle about this show being as Queer as possible. And this is a show that has received near universal praise from critics and audience alike and the fact that it's as gay as a show can get is one of the things people enjoy about the show. But the main reason for that is that while it's clearly made to be LGBT friendly it's never... rude about it.

I can tell you right now that is straight up bullshit. This is one hell of a controversial product not least among fans of the original show who treat this reboot like I do Star Trek Picard (read: as a personal insult). With respect, where do you get your news from anyway? Because if its from left wing news sources then you are not getting a diverse enough range of critics or audiences to make that claim.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

In any game you make the character I have no problem with it. As long as it is not forced down my throat as an agenda. Because agenda laden games wreck it for me by not being a good story or action piece.
That said, I think it will take a while before it really can work. I look at the hand wringing for Mass Effect to being a sex simulator. (Later taken back when someone actually got to the scene) Or the 'controversy' in SWtOR having a possible same sex pairing on one world in one mission chain.
So it may be a while.
Personally I think folks should get over it. But that is not how society moves.

To switch series for moment She-Ra and the Princesses of Power is, like, a SUPER Gay show. Just about every character is either gay or bi and the design of that show backs up this mentality and most of the people who worked on this show are either LGBT or Supports of the LGBT community. There is nothing subtle about this show being as Queer as possible. And this is a show that has received near universal praise from critics and audience alike and the fact that it's as gay as a show can get is one of the things people enjoy about the show. But the main reason for that is that while it's clearly made to be LGBT friendly it's never... rude about it.

I can tell you right now that is straight up bullshit. This is one hell of a controversial product not least among fans of the original show who treat this reboot like I do Star Trek Picard (read: as a personal insult). With respect, where do you get your news from anyway? Because if its from left wing news sources then you are not getting a diverse enough range of critics or audiences to make that claim.

Okay, but if the only people bashing it are right-wingers, then that same argument works against you.

[ProfessorDetective]

In any game you make the character I have no problem with it. As long as it is not forced down my throat as an agenda. Because agenda laden games wreck it for me by not being a good story or action piece.
That said, I think it will take a while before it really can work. I look at the hand wringing for Mass Effect to being a sex simulator. (Later taken back when someone actually got to the scene) Or the 'controversy' in SWtOR having a possible same sex pairing on one world in one mission chain.
So it may be a while.
Personally I think folks should get over it. But that is not how society moves.

To switch series for moment She-Ra and the Princesses of Power is, like, a SUPER Gay show. Just about every character is either gay or bi and the design of that show backs up this mentality and most of the people who worked on this show are either LGBT or Supports of the LGBT community. There is nothing subtle about this show being as Queer as possible. And this is a show that has received near universal praise from critics and audience alike and the fact that it's as gay as a show can get is one of the things people enjoy about the show. But the main reason for that is that while it's clearly made to be LGBT friendly it's never... rude about it.

I can tell you right now that is straight up bullshit. This is one hell of a controversial product not least among fans of the original show who treat this reboot like I do Star Trek Picard (read: as a personal insult). With respect, where do you get your news from anyway? Because if its from left wing news sources then you are not getting a diverse enough range of critics or audiences to make that claim.

Hell, I'm Pansexual and I don't like it, mostly because they pulled the Reylo "hero and irredeemable villain hook up at the last minute, thus 'redeeming' the irredeemable villain" bull again, but with lesbians... And the Kylo equivalent survives...

Can't just drop a villain down a hole anymore, can we?

[Winter]

In any game you make the character I have no problem with it. As long as it is not forced down my throat as an agenda. Because agenda laden games wreck it for me by not being a good story or action piece.
That said, I think it will take a while before it really can work. I look at the hand wringing for Mass Effect to being a sex simulator. (Later taken back when someone actually got to the scene) Or the 'controversy' in SWtOR having a possible same sex pairing on one world in one mission chain.
So it may be a while.
Personally I think folks should get over it. But that is not how society moves.

To switch series for moment She-Ra and the Princesses of Power is, like, a SUPER Gay show. Just about every character is either gay or bi and the design of that show backs up this mentality and most of the people who worked on this show are either LGBT or Supports of the LGBT community. There is nothing subtle about this show being as Queer as possible. And this is a show that has received near universal praise from critics and audience alike and the fact that it's as gay as a show can get is one of the things people enjoy about the show. But the main reason for that is that while it's clearly made to be LGBT friendly it's never... rude about it.

I can tell you right now that is straight up bullshit. This is one hell of a controversial product not least among fans of the original show who treat this reboot like I do Star Trek Picard (read: as a personal insult). With respect, where do you get your news from anyway? Because if its from left wing news sources then you are not getting a diverse enough range of critics or audiences to make that claim.

Rotten Tomatos, Google, YouTube, TV Tropes, Fanfic.net, Fan Archive, DeviantArt, Twitter, Tumblr, IMDb, random people I talk to at fanstores and book stores, the reviews for it on Netflix and this very forum. The vast majority I find on this show is, 97% of the time, positive with very few negative reviews. The Google reviews are mostly 5 stars with only a small handful being 1 stars.

So, no what I said was not BS based on reviews, fan art and fan fics from every major review and fan site. Yes, it's controversial to fans of the original series but for most people who haven't seen the original show, whom were the ones I was talking about, it is very well loved for it's political themes, realistic writing on Abuse, redemption and love.

So, I've now told you where I got my information from, where do you get yours?

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

In any game you make the character I have no problem with it. As long as it is not forced down my throat as an agenda. Because agenda laden games wreck it for me by not being a good story or action piece.

Well, Call of Duty and most shooters already have agendas. They are literally funded by US Army recruitment forces.

[Draco Dracul]

In any game you make the character I have no problem with it. As long as it is not forced down my throat as an agenda. Because agenda laden games wreck it for me by not being a good story or action piece.
That said, I think it will take a while before it really can work. I look at the hand wringing for Mass Effect to being a sex simulator. (Later taken back when someone actually got to the scene) Or the 'controversy' in SWtOR having a possible same sex pairing on one world in one mission chain.
So it may be a while.
Personally I think folks should get over it. But that is not how society moves.

To switch series for moment She-Ra and the Princesses of Power is, like, a SUPER Gay show. Just about every character is either gay or bi and the design of that show backs up this mentality and most of the people who worked on this show are either LGBT or Supports of the LGBT community. There is nothing subtle about this show being as Queer as possible. And this is a show that has received near universal praise from critics and audience alike and the fact that it's as gay as a show can get is one of the things people enjoy about the show. But the main reason for that is that while it's clearly made to be LGBT friendly it's never... rude about it.

I can tell you right now that is straight up bullshit. This is one hell of a controversial product not least among fans of the original show who treat this reboot like I do Star Trek Picard (read: as a personal insult). With respect, where do you get your news from anyway? Because if its from left wing news sources then you are not getting a diverse enough range of critics or audiences to make that claim.

It's a controversial show for people not only never watched, but never where going to watch it and would have made fun of any guy that claimed to like the original She-Ra show up until the very moment new show was announced.

To the OP: Yes, I think non-binary options should be included as they don't take a lot of extra work. Additionally I think you should be able to select voice options separately from gender options.

In any game you make the character I have no problem with it. As long as it is not forced down my throat as an agenda. Because agenda laden games wreck it for me by not being a good story or action piece.

Well, Call of Duty and most shooters already have agendas. They are literally funded by US Army recruitment forces.

Additionally claiming to be apolitical in general is extremely political because it's a declaration that any political views expressed in your work, and there almost certainly will be, are so absolutely right that to question them would be madness.

[clearspira]

In any game you make the character I have no problem with it. As long as it is not forced down my throat as an agenda. Because agenda laden games wreck it for me by not being a good story or action piece.
That said, I think it will take a while before it really can work. I look at the hand wringing for Mass Effect to being a sex simulator. (Later taken back when someone actually got to the scene) Or the 'controversy' in SWtOR having a possible same sex pairing on one world in one mission chain.
So it may be a while.
Personally I think folks should get over it. But that is not how society moves.

To switch series for moment She-Ra and the Princesses of Power is, like, a SUPER Gay show. Just about every character is either gay or bi and the design of that show backs up this mentality and most of the people who worked on this show are either LGBT or Supports of the LGBT community. There is nothing subtle about this show being as Queer as possible. And this is a show that has received near universal praise from critics and audience alike and the fact that it's as gay as a show can get is one of the things people enjoy about the show. But the main reason for that is that while it's clearly made to be LGBT friendly it's never... rude about it.

I can tell you right now that is straight up bullshit. This is one hell of a controversial product not least among fans of the original show who treat this reboot like I do Star Trek Picard (read: as a personal insult). With respect, where do you get your news from anyway? Because if its from left wing news sources then you are not getting a diverse enough range of critics or audiences to make that claim.

Rotten Tomatos, Google, YouTube, TV Tropes, Fanfic.net, Fan Archive, DeviantArt, Twitter, Tumblr, IMDb, random people I talk to at fanstores and book stores, the reviews for it on Netflix and this very forum. The vast majority I find on this show is, 97% of the time, positive with very few negative reviews. The Google reviews are mostly 5 stars with only a small handful being 1 stars.

So, no what I said was not BS based on reviews, fan art and fan fics from every major review and fan site. Yes, it's controversial to fans of the original series but for most people who haven't seen the original show, whom were the ones I was talking about, it is very well loved for it's political themes, realistic writing on Abuse, redemption and love.

So, I've now told you where I got my information from, where do you get yours?

Twitter and Youtube? You're serious right? You just said that? I go back to what I said about you not having enough of a diverse perspective to make this claim. Breaking news: Youtube and Twitter is WHERE the people who dislike shit talk shit. Here's my advice: go back to Youtube and actually type in ''She-Ra sucks'' and see what comes up.

That aside, DeviantArt isn't evidence for ANYTHING. I would go as far as to call the site cancer for some of the worst traits of our society.

[Nealithi]

In any game you make the character I have no problem with it. As long as it is not forced down my throat as an agenda. Because agenda laden games wreck it for me by not being a good story or action piece.

Well, Call of Duty and most shooters already have agendas. They are literally funded by US Army recruitment forces.

Call of Duty is army funded? I know the game America's Army was. And it included as much realism as could be put in the title and used parts of actual army field manuals. There was a case of someone knowing how to control bleeding because he had gotten through the medic portion on America's Army and it was all based on the actual classes. My understanding is that those that played that game prior to enlistment did better as well because they already had some of the material down.

As to the comment that everything has some political agenda. I wish to point out a caution. Remember Chuck's review of Paradise Lost. How it was a great 9/11 allegory and done well. All written before 9/11. Those attempting such an comparison afterward came off as ham fisted.

[Winter]

Twitter and Youtube? You're serious right? You just said that? I go back to what I said about you not having enough of a diverse perspective to make this claim. Breaking news: Youtube and Twitter is WHERE the people who dislike shit talk shit. Here's my advice: go back to Youtube and actually type in ''She-Ra sucks'' and see what comes up.

That aside, DeviantArt isn't evidence for ANYTHING. I would go as far as to call the site cancer for some of the worst traits of our society.

"If you look for the light, you can often find it.But if you look for the dark that is all you will ever see."

Yes, if you look up She-Ra sucks you will find many videos that will cover how bad it is. Just like if you type up Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings, The Godfather and Citizen Kane Suck you'll find something bad. Here's my counterargument, type up She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, just She-Ra and see what you find.

I'm not going to pretend that Youtube, Twitter or DevitantArt are sites filled with great philosophers it's just a site like any other filled with @$$holes, saints and regular people. I'm also not going to pretend that I've never seen horrible people but I'm also not going to pretend that the only thing I've seen there are people making reasonable arguments which are the ones I tend to pay attention to.

But back to the original point, you asked me, quote

Where do you get your news from anyway? Because if its from left wing news sources then you are not getting a diverse enough range of critics or audiences to make that claim.

And I told you, and please note I also mentioned Rotten Tomatoes and IMDb along with the fan sites I mentioned and with the former the audience score was almost as high as the critic score and this is the same site where audience score for Star Trek Picard, The Last Jedi and Captain Marvel were either mixed at best or negative. And on Netflix it was popular enough to last all planned 5 (technically 4) seasons and Netflix has something of a reputation of cancelling it's own shows which included the overall poplar and VERY Gay show Sense8.

I got my information from several sources which includes several news sites just from typing up She-Ra and the Princesses of Power and see what popped up and 97% of the time, like I said before, it was positive. And, when he gets around to reviewing it, I'm 99.99% certain that Chuck's review of the show will go as follows. Season 1 will largely be good but lackluster but will likely comment on the complexity of the characters, season 2 will be critiqued for not really going anywhere and season 3 through 5 will be praised for their clever writing, well thought-out plot and the character work because that's how most reviews go.

I'll admit that season 1 and 2 I was watching the show just because I am a romantic and wanted to see Catra and Adora get together. By the end of season 3 I was watching it because I had become to engaged in the show that for the first time in a long time I was just enraptured in the story. I was so engaged in the story that things I normally would have seen coming I now find myself just worrying about. The last show to get me this involved was Avatar.

And again, I'm not alone in this. Go to RT, IMDb or just type up She-Ra on YT and Google, it's mostly positive with very few negative points against it.

I get that you don't like and that's fine, really more power to you and I mean that sincerely, but the sites I listed are ones that are mostly positive.

Again, I told you where I got my information with complete honesty now you can do the same.

[Winter]

Hell, I'm Pansexual and I don't like it, mostly because they pulled the Reylo "hero and irredeemable villain hook up at the last minute, thus 'redeeming' the irredeemable villain" bull again, but with lesbians... And the Kylo equivalent survives...

Can't just drop a villain down a hole anymore, can we?

I can't agree that Catra was irredeemable. Yes, she did a lot of F#(ked up things but so did Glimmer & Entrapta and what they did was just as bad as what Catra did and in ALL Three cases they felt regret for their actions. And it wasn't Adora who redeemed Catra, Catra was the one who pulled herself out of her the hole she made for herself and her redemption doesn't start until half way through season 5. It was Catra's love for Adora that caused her to make one good choice.

Shadow Weaver is a bit more debatable as to whether she could be redeemed or if she was beyond saving or if she even WAS redeemed. Both Adora and Catra are sadden by her death and I do think that she loved both of them but it's impossible to spend your whole life with someone and not develop SOME form of attachment.

Reylo... is just bad IMO. Rey is given ZERO reason to fall for Kylo and Kylo is only interested in her as a way to hurt his family and his own gratification. Adora and Catra have been in love since they were kids and we've seen the good in Catra throughout the series but her own personal issues kept causing her and those she loved grief.

One thing that bugs me about Kylo is he does so many terrible things and the films keep trying to make us sympathies with him even though he does NOTHING to to earn it and we NEVER see the suppose good in him until he changes sides on the grounds that he didn't want to be evil anymore. Catra changed because she lot everything she had, was confronted by the fact that she had no one but herself to blame for her own situation. And in what she thought was going to be her final moment with Adora at the start of Season 5 instead of asking for forgiveness she just told Adora she was sorry for everything she did.

Kylo, murder his several of his fellow students, murder his father, indirectly killed his uncle and later his mother and gaslighted and harassed Rey and tried to murder her. Never showed any sign that he cared about anyone besides himself and did what he did because he was a Darth Vader fan. Catra showed kindness and concern towards Adora, Scorpia, Entrapta and even Shadow Weaver. Regretted her treatment of the latter three and was willing to try and better herself.

Catra and Kylo are similar but Catra zigs everywhere Kylo zags. Catra shows that she is more then the monster Shadow Weaver tried to make her into while Kylo is only redeemable because the plot says so... at the end of the Trilogy... by revealing he is under Palpatine's control... somehow...

Kylo never changes until the end and does so for vague reasons that don't line up with the rest of his "arc". Catra's redemption is gradual and when she does start her redemption it feels real (speaking from experience here).

In the end this is just my opinion but I think Catra has one of the best redemption arcs ever (I actually like it a bit more then Zuko's) and is what Kylo could have been if any effort went into his character.