Kai Winn vs. Shaow Weaver: How to Write a Hateful Character

[Nealithi]

I could never shake the fact that I was watching Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.
She just dripped with that sense she enjoyed seeing people hurt just to amuse her.
About the only time I think I saw her do something without that was during the two parter where the Bajorans kicked out the Federation and Kira brought evidence that the current group rising to power was backed by the Cardassians. She acted like even if they could win like that she would not do it. But they seemed to drop that in her very next appearance and she went oily again.

[Winter]

I could never shake the fact that I was watching Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.
She just dripped with that sense she enjoyed seeing people hurt just to amuse her.
About the only time I think I saw her do something without that was during the two parter where the Bajorans kicked out the Federation and Kira brought evidence that the current group rising to power was backed by the Cardassians. She acted like even if they could win like that she would not do it. But they seemed to drop that in her very next appearance and she went oily again.

I do think that Winn's actor, Louise Fletcher, is giving a good performance throughout the series I just feel that the scripts failed her. Ratched is delightfully Evil, you just want to punch her for being the petty piece of $#!t she is but with Winn part of my issue with her is her plans are convoluted. Just go to watch one of Chuck's reviews with her in it and see how easily her plans could come undone. Ratched is a nurse who abuses her power against people who can do little to nothing to stop her because of her position. Winn is an idiot who should have gotten kicked out a dozen times over.

I've mentioned this before but when she nearly caused a civil war over farming equipment that should have been the end of her power. Instead she gets to keep all the power she had before this and just can't get the power she wanted. Either Winn should have had a realization that she had gone to far and choose to do better or should have lost her power altogether and been removed from the series. Ratched is a sadist who deals with the mentally ill and because of that everyone turns a blind eye at her treatment of her patients. It makes sense that should would stay in power after everything she did but in DS9 after Winn's massive screw up she should have been kicked out because everyone got fed up with her and her $#!t leadership.

Again, Shadow Weaver shows how to handle this perfectly, after she screws up one to many times and attacks Catra she's thrown in jail and has to defect to the heroes. And after everything she's done NO ONE gives her the benefit of the doubt and she ends up alone and it's made clear that she will never get the power she's sought all her life.

[Nealithi]

I could never shake the fact that I was watching Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.
She just dripped with that sense she enjoyed seeing people hurt just to amuse her.
About the only time I think I saw her do something without that was during the two parter where the Bajorans kicked out the Federation and Kira brought evidence that the current group rising to power was backed by the Cardassians. She acted like even if they could win like that she would not do it. But they seemed to drop that in her very next appearance and she went oily again.

I do think that Winn's actor, Louise Fletcher, is giving a good performance throughout the series I just feel that the scripts failed her. Ratched is delightfully Evil, you just want to punch her for being the petty piece of $#!t she is but with Winn part of my issue with her is her plans are convoluted. Just go to watch one of Chuck's reviews with her in it and see how easily her plans could come undone. Ratched is a nurse who abuses her power against people who can do little to nothing to stop her because of her position. Winn is an idiot who should have gotten kicked out a dozen times over.

I've mentioned this before but when she nearly caused a civil war over farming equipment that should have been the end of her power. Instead she gets to keep all the power she had before this and just can't get the power she wanted. Either Winn should have had a realization that she had gone to far and choose to do better or should have lost her power altogether and been removed from the series. Ratched is a sadist who deals with the mentally ill and because of that everyone turns a blind eye at her treatment of her patients. It makes sense that should would stay in power after everything she did but in DS9 after Winn's massive screw up she should have been kicked out because everyone got fed up with her and her $#!t leadership.

Again, Shadow Weaver shows how to handle this perfectly, after she screws up one to many times and attacks Catra she's thrown in jail and has to defect to the heroes. And after everything she's done NO ONE gives her the benefit of the doubt and she ends up alone and it's made clear that she will never get the power she's sought all her life.

I still say Winn seems to enjoy some suffering. But I also think she can't be kicked out. I know most everyone compares the bajorans to Jews. But the position Winn holds seems equivalent to the Pope. How many fervent Catholics want to remove the Pope? And any attempt to remove her through violence will make a martyr out of her or nearly so if she survives.
If I had to make a guess at the reason she failed to be better fleshed out. Is the day to day plight of the bajorans bored viewers.