Sfdebris.net

McAvoy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:55 am Well Jeri Taylor tended to write Janeeay like a fanfiction character in her own image, almost like a Mary Sue.

Having read her book, Janeway is absolutely her self insert Mary Sue in the traditional usage of the term.

Mulgrew apparently butted heads with her about it....as Janeway was HER self-insert.

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 5:50 pm Mulgrew apparently butted heads with her about it....as Janeway was HER self-insert.

Which just added to the problems. I'm having mixed feelings about Mulgrew and her opinions, though I can't quite put my finger on why. She just rubs me the wrong way and if things can be believed, she can be quite the arsehole to other actors for no good reason (e.g. Jeri Ryan).

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 7:10 pm

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 5:50 pm Mulgrew apparently butted heads with her about it....as Janeway was HER self-insert.

Which just added to the problems. I'm having mixed feelings about Mulgrew and her opinions, though I can't quite put my finger on why. She just rubs me the wrong way and if things can be believed, she can be quite the arsehole to other actors for no good reason (e.g. Jeri Ryan).

As far as Jeri Ryan, I think it was mainly due to Mulgrew doing her best prevent Janeway and maybe the other female actors on the show being sex objects in some form. Then here comes Jeri Ryan who basically replaces Kes and is basically everything Mulgrew fought against. Between that and the general worry about Seven taking more lines from the old crew, she lashed out at Jeri Ryan.

McAvoy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:08 pm
As far as Jeri Ryan, I think it was mainly due to Mulgrew doing her best prevent Janeway and maybe the other female actors on the show being sex objects in some form. Then here comes Jeri Ryan who basically replaces Kes and is basically everything Mulgrew fought against. Between that and the general worry about Seven taking more lines from the old crew, she lashed out at Jeri Ryan.

Mulgrew is apparently the one who killed Chakotay/Janeway too.

Voyager had too many cooks, several of whom were not even cooks.

It's like Neelix was truly real, and he was Voyager all along.

McAvoy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:08 pm

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 7:10 pm

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 5:50 pm Mulgrew apparently butted heads with her about it....as Janeway was HER self-insert.

Which just added to the problems. I'm having mixed feelings about Mulgrew and her opinions, though I can't quite put my finger on why. She just rubs me the wrong way and if things can be believed, she can be quite the arsehole to other actors for no good reason (e.g. Jeri Ryan).

As far as Jeri Ryan, I think it was mainly due to Mulgrew doing her best prevent Janeway and maybe the other female actors on the show being sex objects in some form. Then here comes Jeri Ryan who basically replaces Kes and is basically everything Mulgrew fought against. Between that and the general worry about Seven taking more lines from the old crew, she lashed out at Jeri Ryan.

I agree with Mulgrew for what it's worth even if she did lash out at an innocent person.

Seven of Nine is problematic for this show's legacy. It is very hard to brag about your feminist credentials for having your strong female lead when the exact same show pairs her up with a woman in a skintight padded catsuit. And the thing is, unlike other contemporary examples, it is very hard to defend it because Seven's personality is so opposite of a skintight padded catsuit. Troi at least is a sexually liberated woman from a matriarchal society of telepaths who have nude weddings. I liken this to having a guy in a grass skirt and a bone through his nose working alongside Sisko.

BTW, I'm not saying that they needed to dress Seven up like a nun either, but you can achieve the intended goal of ''more sex appeal for the lads'' with normal clothes. Bond girls mastered that one a long time before season 4 of Star Trek Voyager.

McAvoy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:08 pm

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 7:10 pm

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 5:50 pm Mulgrew apparently butted heads with her about it....as Janeway was HER self-insert.

Which just added to the problems. I'm having mixed feelings about Mulgrew and her opinions, though I can't quite put my finger on why. She just rubs me the wrong way and if things can be believed, she can be quite the arsehole to other actors for no good reason (e.g. Jeri Ryan).

As far as Jeri Ryan, I think it was mainly due to Mulgrew doing her best prevent Janeway and maybe the other female actors on the show being sex objects in some form. Then here comes Jeri Ryan who basically replaces Kes and is basically everything Mulgrew fought against. Between that and the general worry about Seven taking more lines from the old crew, she lashed out at Jeri Ryan.

It wasn't just with Ryan though. Garrett Wang keeps alluding to trouble with her behaviour, whenever she makes an appearance in his behind the scenes talks (can't provide a source though), though he never outright states it. For as much as Berman needed pushback and as thankful we should be, that Seven didn't become even more of a showgirl, we should be sceptical of Mulgrew's other influences.

And as for the feud with Ryan, it simply isn't the fault of the actress and that's where Mulgrew crossed a line much too easily, imo.

I have to assume that to some extent the bad blood was fuelled in part by Ryan dating Brannon Braga.

TGLS wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 12:51 pm I have to assume that to some extent the bad blood was fuelled in part by Ryan dating Brannon Braga.

Timing matters. First there was Seven of Nine, then there was Jeri Ryan, then was Mulgrew being a tool and only after that was the liason with Braga, as far as I am aware. When Ryan got the job, she was still married to Jack Ryan (not that this has ever kept anyone from anything, much less so if one partner is a fan of sex-clubs and kinks which the other is not *coughs*).

My very personal opinion and take on it: The way I read Mulgrew, she's the kind of personality that always wants to be center-stage and gets nasty when she feels she isn't. Once she made up her mind, she goes straight for what she decided for and won't take prisoners on her way there.