Why did Shaw die in Picard?

[Durandal_1707]

Or Picard. Besides that, an old character dying to pass the torch is a tired trope. It wasn't good when Kirk died already.

Wait, that's what that was supposed to be? Shatner's only like nine years older than Stewart...

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

As in, what was his movie karma? Was it for deadnaming Seven?

Because they couldn't kill Data again.

Or Picard. Besides that, an old character dying to pass the torch is a tired trope. It wasn't good when Kirk died already.

Really I didn't care for them killing off every side character they brought back.

I don't really mind Kirk's death so much as I just wish they gave him more to do, especially considering how much it takes for the crossover to start paying off.

[CharlesPhipps]

Yeah again, I'm not really sure that's what character karma is.

I'm saying there's no character karma. He died to amp the stakes because he's a new creation for the show. He didn't "die" because he was a bad person, he died because he's not TNG original cast and he's thus expendable like all of the Picard castwas.

If they wanted him to die for being a "bad" person they wouldn't go to all the unnecessary redemption of his character like having him recommend Seven to be a captain.

[hammerofglass]

I still haven't figured out what they were going for with the "deadnaming Seven" thing. It's made clear he's the only one who does it and everyone else thinks it's incredibly rude, but in his recording it seems like he hates doing it and would rather just call her by her chosen name.

If they just wanted us to dislike him early on so we'd ignore that he's completely in the right and let him soften when they want us to like him then they didn't think it through at all. In my state at least deliberately deadnaming a coworker like that is considered serious harassment, equivalent to calling her an outright slur.

[McAvoy]

As in, what was his movie karma? Was it for deadnaming Seven?

Because they couldn't kill Data again.

Or Picard. Besides that, an old character dying to pass the torch is a tired trope. It wasn't good when Kirk died already.

Really I didn't care for them killing off every side character they brought back.

I don't really mind Kirk's death so much as I just wish they gave him more to do, especially considering how much it takes for the crossover to start paying off.

To this day, I honestly don't know how I would have given Kirk a better send off outside totally rewriting the entire movie. Best I got was Kirk restraining Soran from letting the missile launch off and ends up being blasted down below. Like the final sacrifice. Soran manages to get to missile pad in time but Kirk decides to just restrain him and let the pad explode.

[CharlesPhipps]

I still haven't figured out what they were going for with the "deadnaming Seven" thing.

I feel like the trans element is a poor fit for the scene since I don't recall any war where a soldier is traumatized by hordes of trans people murdering his crew.

It's like Seven is in a LGBTA drama and Shaw is Quint from Jaws.

It's also extra confusing because Seven's relationship with the Borg is they kidnapped and abused her.

[McAvoy]

I still haven't figured out what they were going for with the "deadnaming Seven" thing.

I feel like the trans element is a poor fit for the scene since I don't recall any war where a soldier is traumatized by hordes of trans people murdering his crew.

It's like Seven is in a LGBTA drama and Shaw is Quint from Jaws.

It's also extra confusing because Seven's relationship with the Borg is they kidnapped and abused her.

Maybe they weren't going a trans alagory. Unlikely sure.

But think about the idea of a soldier or a marine that served in the Middle East and was wounded in a IED. Or saw a series of battles and served under rough hostile conditions in the Middle East. Then see a Muslim converted over to Christianity for example or just an American Muslim.

Or think about how some felt about Germans after both World Wars or Americans felt about the Japanese after WW2.

Could be that.

[hammerofglass]

I don't even think it really is a trans analogy, I just don't really have a better term for it it. If she'd gotten married and taken her spouse's name and he insisted on using her maiden name twenty years later out of spite it would be the same level of weird.

It's really the "only he does it but he acts like there's a gun to his head forcing him" part that I don't know what the writers were going for.

[CharlesPhipps]

I don't even think it really is a trans analogy, I just don't really have a better term for it it. If she'd gotten married and taken her spouse's name and he insisted on using her maiden name twenty years later out of spite it would be the same level of weird.

It's really the "only he does it but he acts like there's a gun to his head forcing him" part that I don't know what the writers were going for.

I mean he's unremittently an asshole to everyone on the ship. Forcing Picard and Riker into the Lower Deckers bunks for example, eating before they arrive, and so on.

[McAvoy]

I don't even think it really is a trans analogy, I just don't really have a better term for it it. If she'd gotten married and taken her spouse's name and he insisted on using her maiden name twenty years later out of spite it would be the same level of weird.

It's really the "only he does it but he acts like there's a gun to his head forcing him" part that I don't know what the writers were going for.

I mean he's unremittently an asshole to everyone on the ship. Forcing Picard and Riker into the Lower Deckers bunks for example, eating before they arrive, and so on.

There is that.

I do wonder if it was just Riker and not Picard and/or Seven there that maybe he would behave better. He is a survivor of Wolf 359 and while it's been far longer, he shows traits Sisko did to Picard. But at least during that time it was still recent enough for it be raw for Sisko to see Picard.

I kinda feel that Shaw should have been in the Battle of Sector 001 too and have that ship damaged or destroyed too. Two battles against the Borg and barely survive the would leave a long lasting mark for Shaw.

But yeah, him being an ass in general is just heightened by his experience 30 years prior with Locutus.