Sink or Swim Mentors

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

But Granny's moral problems began with her first proper book. In Wyrd Sisters, she soaked all the magic out of Magrat's broom just for a power boost and left her to "deal with the situation herself". If Verance hadn't been in the right place for Magrat to land on, she would have had a 45-degree-angle neck and a consultation with one of Pratchett's most popular characters. Nothing in the narrative indicated that Granny knew Magrat would land on somebody soft, but Granny comes off favorably just because the writer conspired to make things work out for her. She never has to deal with the consequences of her judgement failing.

[Rocketboy1313]

I feel the need to point to a subversion of this trope.
Sgt Slaughter from GI Joe.
He actually says, "I'm gonna work you till you wish you were dead, and then you are going to keep working because you're afraid if you don't, I won't let you die."
BUT, when they go on a mission he does not leave his men hanging and also says, "If we don't all go home, then none of us go home."

He may work you over, he may drag you along, he might make it hard or borderline impossible, but he is standing next to you while you do the job. There is only two ways out, "On your feet like a man, or in a ditty bag. An itty bitty ditty bag."
https://youtu.be/1jqxYHB-Ijg

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

See, I don't think that's so much a subversion as it is a different trope. If he bails them out of lethal peril, he's not really a sink-or-swim mentor.

[LittleRaven]

Specifically, that would be the Training From Hell trope, which is quite independent of the Sink or Swim Mentor trope. A Sink or Swim mentor isn't necessarily harsh or mean, though they can be. The trope just refers to their tendency to say 'Whelp, I'm sure you've got this.' and bug out when their students ostensibly need them most.

[Rocketboy1313]

Here is the thing, if the only way to qualify for the trope is for it to happen than subversion is impossible.
It is a subversion because an especially harsh trainer that talks about working his men to death and takes them on a mission for "training" and stacking the mission for difficulty and then NOT fucking them all over is a subversion.

Any instance in which you think the mentor figure will leave the students to fend for themselves and he doesn't, or even emphasises the lesson, "don't leave people behind" then that is a swerve.

[LittleRaven]

Here is the thing, if the only way to qualify for the trope is for it to happen than subversion is impossible.

I'm well outside my realm of expertise here, but I think the way to subvert this trope would be for the mentor to appear to abandon their student, but actually be working behind the scenes to make sure that their student was never in any real danger.

Super, super minor spoilers for Words of Radiance ahead....


For example, in one of Sanderson's cutaways, the young trader Rysn is left to fend for herself when her master, Vstim, is incapacitated by illness right before an important round of trading negotiations with a very unpleasant fellow named Talik. Rysn is keenly aware of how important this trade is - her caravan may well go bankrupt if negotiations fail, and Talik is going out of his way to make things hard for her. She eventually finds a (somewhat disastrous) solution, only to discover afterwards that it was all a test. Vstim was never sick, and Talik is in fact a former associate and friend, who was tasked by Vstim with giving Rysn a hard time to see how she dealt with a truly awful client. Vstim never intended to put Rysn in any real danger or to abandon her at a truly critical moment, though he wanted her to believe that a crucial moment was at hand.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Honestly, I'd settle for a case where the Sink or Swim mentor leaves the student to fend for themselves...and something goes really wrong, and the mentor has to face consequences for the recklessness with which they gamble student's lives.

That's the thing that annoys me most about this trope. Logically, something horrible SHOULD happen if they guess wrong, but they never do, so they can keep on treating their students as disposable without any shame. Heck, even seeing them just get called out for it instead of validated by the narrative and the other characters would be a nice change of pace.

[TGLS]

Sgt Slaughter from GI Joe... when they go on a mission he does not leave his men hanging and also says, "If we don't all go home, then none of us go home."

I think that's closer to defying the trope ("You thought it was trope X? Nuh-uh. It isn't going to happen.") than a subversion.

I'm well outside my realm of expertise here, but I think the way to subvert this trope would be for the mentor to appear to abandon their student, but actually be working behind the scenes to make sure that their student was never in any real danger.

That looks like a subversion (the trope looks like it is going to happen, but then doesn't)

Honestly, I'd settle for a case where the Sink or Swim mentor leaves the student to fend for themselves...and something goes really wrong, and the mentor has to face consequences for the recklessness with which they gamble student's lives.

This is a clear deconstruction (The trope happens, but the implications and plausible consequences are explored, usually with a dark streak.)

[The Romulan Republic]

My thought on this topic, first off, is that a mentor's lesson is only of much use to the student if the student lives long enough to learn from it.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

My thought on this topic, first off, is that a mentor's lesson is only of much use to the student if the student lives long enough to learn from it.

"Experience is an excellent teacher, but unfortunately she kills many of her students."