Superman (2025)

[hammerofglass]

I haven't seen Superman and Lois but in My Adventures With Superman Clark is the sweetest Golden Retriever of a young man imaginable. They went with the "traditional Kryptonian design" bit for the costume but he's 100 somebody who would proudly wear something his mom made for him.

The trailer does have me excited that we'll get a real Superman this time.

[McAvoy]

I won't go into this thinking they made a 'Real' Superman until I see the movie. Cavil Superman looked the part but it was writing of Snyder and direction that made him less Superman.

Though this one really did a good job so far as I can see in where you really could see a difference between Clark Kent and Superman. Hair, even changes his face a bit, and mannerisms. Cavil's Clark Kent didn't really make a serious attempt at that. Again I don't know if that Synder or Cavil.

[clearspira]

I won't go into this thinking they made a 'Real' Superman until I see the movie. Cavil Superman looked the part but it was writing of Snyder and direction that made him less Superman.

Though this one really did a good job so far as I can see in where you really could see a difference between Clark Kent and Superman. Hair, even changes his face a bit, and mannerisms. Cavil's Clark Kent didn't really make a serious attempt at that. Again I don't know if that Synder or Cavil.

You remember that scene in Kill Bill?

Bill: As you know, I'm quite keen on comic books. Especially the ones about superheroes. I find the whole mythology surrounding superheroes fascinating. Take my favorite superhero, Superman. Not a great comic book. Not particularly well drawn. But the mythology … the mythology is not only great, it's unique.

The Bride: [who still has a dart in her leg] How long does this shit take to go into effect?!

Bill: About two minutes, just long enough for me to finish my point. Now, a staple of the superhero mythology is there's the superhero and there's the alter ego. Batman is actually Bruce Wayne, Spider-Man is actually Peter Parker. When that character wakes up in the morning, he's Peter Parker. He has to put on a costume to become Spider-Man. And it is in that characteristic Superman stands alone. Superman didn't become Superman. Superman was born Superman. When Superman wakes up in the morning, he's Superman. His alter ego is Clark Kent. His outfit with the big red "S", that's the blanket he was wrapped in as a baby when the Kents found him. Those are his clothes. What Kent wears – the glasses, the business suit – that's the costume. That's the costume Superman wears to blend in with us. Clark Kent is how Superman views us. And what are the characteristics of Clark Kent? He's weak, he's unsure of himself, he's a coward. Clark Kent is Superman's critique on the whole human race. Sort of like Beatrix Kiddo and Mrs. Tommy Plympton.

-

It's nonsense. Bruce Wayne wakes up as Batman. Clark Kent wakes up as Clark Kent. He is a good-natured farm boy who loves his parents, his friends and his wife. Superman is who he becomes to protect those people whilst protecting others. Which is why I really like the idea of Clark's super suit being made by his mum rather than it being some uniform. Snyder NEVER understood this. Worse, he treated Superman like he was a god or Jesus or something.

TL;DR I don't think any part of those films was Cavill's fault. He was taking the direction that he was given by a man who should never have been given the job to begin with. Say what you like about Joss, but I think that he understood the assignment much better, he was just hamstrung by the fact that he was trying to make a silk purse out of a pig's ear.

[stryke]

You remember that scene in Kill Bill?

I thought the first Kill Bill was alright with some really good moments which has unfortunately aged terribly since due to finding out more about Uma Thurman went through filming it.

I despised Kill Bill 2 though from the moment I was first seeing it in the cinema, and a lot of it was down to how astoundingly wrong-headed that self indulgent speech is.

[McAvoy]

I won't go into this thinking they made a 'Real' Superman until I see the movie. Cavil Superman looked the part but it was writing of Snyder and direction that made him less Superman.

Though this one really did a good job so far as I can see in where you really could see a difference between Clark Kent and Superman. Hair, even changes his face a bit, and mannerisms. Cavil's Clark Kent didn't really make a serious attempt at that. Again I don't know if that Synder or Cavil.

You remember that scene in Kill Bill?

Bill: As you know, I'm quite keen on comic books. Especially the ones about superheroes. I find the whole mythology surrounding superheroes fascinating. Take my favorite superhero, Superman. Not a great comic book. Not particularly well drawn. But the mythology … the mythology is not only great, it's unique.

The Bride: [who still has a dart in her leg] How long does this shit take to go into effect?!

Bill: About two minutes, just long enough for me to finish my point. Now, a staple of the superhero mythology is there's the superhero and there's the alter ego. Batman is actually Bruce Wayne, Spider-Man is actually Peter Parker. When that character wakes up in the morning, he's Peter Parker. He has to put on a costume to become Spider-Man. And it is in that characteristic Superman stands alone. Superman didn't become Superman. Superman was born Superman. When Superman wakes up in the morning, he's Superman. His alter ego is Clark Kent. His outfit with the big red "S", that's the blanket he was wrapped in as a baby when the Kents found him. Those are his clothes. What Kent wears – the glasses, the business suit – that's the costume. That's the costume Superman wears to blend in with us. Clark Kent is how Superman views us. And what are the characteristics of Clark Kent? He's weak, he's unsure of himself, he's a coward. Clark Kent is Superman's critique on the whole human race. Sort of like Beatrix Kiddo and Mrs. Tommy Plympton.

-

It's nonsense. Bruce Wayne wakes up as Batman. Clark Kent wakes up as Clark Kent. He is a good-natured farm boy who loves his parents, his friends and his wife. Superman is who he becomes to protect those people whilst protecting others. Which is why I really like the idea of Clark's super suit being made by his mum rather than it being some uniform. Snyder NEVER understood this. Worse, he treated Superman like he was a god or Jesus or something.

TL;DR I don't think any part of those films was Cavill's fault. He was taking the direction that he was given by a man who should never have been given the job to begin with. Say what you like about Joss, but I think that he understood the assignment much better, he was just hamstrung by the fact that he was trying to make a silk purse out of a pig's ear.

I pretty sure there is no debate that Batman is actually Bruce Wayne and Bruce Wayne the billionaire is the costume. Plenty of examples in media about that. Whether it's the Animated series or the first Burton movie or Nolin movies.

Superman on the other hand is up for debate on which is the disguise. I have seen both sides written or spoken and they make sense.

Whether like Batman, Superman is Clark Kent or Kal El and Clark Kent the reporter is the disguise. Or Clark Kent is the human or person who grew up with humans and Superman is Kal El of Krypton. Or Superman and Clark Kent is a mix of both where each are not only a disguise but also the actual part of Clark Kent and Superman. Just different traits coming through.

Media tends to trend in either way depending on how they want to portray Superman. Animated Superman tends to blur both Clark Kent and Superman. I think it's where we see him in love action media, where we tend to see exaggerating aspects of Clark Kent. With the exception of Cavill which I have stated before doesn't really make an effort in that department.

Like this new Superman and his Clark Kent is interesting. He really does see like two different people, even more so than Reeve's own portrayal. Them making a point of showing that in the teaser is a good thing.

Just amusing to me how much hair gel or spit he needs to fix his hair either as Superman or Clark Kent.

[hammerofglass]

I always thought that scene in Kill Bill was meant to be obviously absurd to showcase just how twisted broken and kinda stupid Bill's worldview is. Because his whole point in bringing it up is to make a point about The Bride, who he has also completely misunderstood.

[McAvoy]

I always thought that scene in Kill Bill was meant to be obviously absurd to showcase just how twisted broken and kinda stupid Bill's worldview is. Because his whole point in bringing it up is to make a point about The Bride, who he has also completely misunderstood.

Probably. I haven't seen either movie in a long time. But I do remember that scene.

[Winter]

I always thought that scene in Kill Bill was meant to be obviously absurd to showcase just how twisted broken and kinda stupid Bill's worldview is. Because his whole point in bringing it up is to make a point about The Bride, who he has also completely misunderstood.

That's one thing that everyone forgets about that scene in KB, the person who is saying that Clark Kent is meant to be how Superman looks down on humanity, how Superman is who he really is, who insists that Superman sees himself as above all others is, himself, a villain. This is something Luthor would say about Superman if he knew that Clark and Sups were one and the same.

I think Tarantino himself said that the way Bill sees Superman is not how he sees Superman, that he knows that Clark is who Superman really is and Bill is projecting traits that Superman doesn't actually possess. One line that is often overlooked is how Bill says that Superman is not a great comic book but that he loves the mythology around it.

His view on Superman is that he feels that the series is weak but he loves how he sees it, even if it's the opposite of what it's really means. This is not uncommon as many do not understand the character or meaning of Superman.

Fascists see Superman for only is power, they want to do what he does so they can bully those around him. Many anti-fascists see the same thing, that characters like Superman and his superfriends are pro-fascist because they emphasis power and strength.

What both groups fail to understand is that Superman ISN'T about the power, it's about someone with power who does what he can but stays out of things that he has no right to be involved in.

In the comics when Luthor became Precedent of the United States Superman spoke out against it but did NOT interfere with the election, or attacked Luthor. He did his job and kept the peace and only when it was clear that Luthor was guilty did Superman go after Lex and never once.

Basically people like Bill sees Superman in the wrong way, he sees the power and projects his idea of the character onto him and refuses to see the truth.

[CharlesPhipps]

The "superheroes are fascist" argument is one that I disagree with because it implies that individuality enforced against the system is wrong. The problem is that any collectivist viewpoint that ignores individual certainty is worthless. It also equates heroism with fascism, which is fucking dumb.

In any case, I don't think James Gunn will be perfect for Superman. However, I think he'll do pretty well in trying to make a fun, goofy DCU with dark moments.

[Nobody700]

The biggest argument against heroes being Fascists is... why isn't every hero a Squadron Supreme, Regime, or Miracleman? Those are EXCEPTIONS, and noted as exceptions, for a reason. Even Black Panther, Aquaman, and Geoforce, actual royalty who rule nations, have fought against Nazis and tend to be pro democracy when their nations become democratic.