Are the X-Men a Poor Allegory for the Mistreatment of Minorities?

[Nobody700]

Okay so genuine thing... in a recent X-Men book, Mirage (an X-Men character) finds out her speeches of 'you are beautiful on the inside' fail when a mutant DOES hate their body because they look like garbage. Literal garbage. She admits that all her speeches of 'don't change who you are' fail when someone so radically hates what their body is and wants to change it... and a trans friend of her says yeah, people do that.

So I think the cure is a metaphor for curing homosexuality via shock therapy becomes muddled when you realize it can also be a metaphor for changing your body to fit who you believe you should be.

[McAvoy]

Okay so genuine thing... in a recent X-Men book, Mirage (an X-Men character) finds out her speeches of 'you are beautiful on the inside' fail when a mutant DOES hate their body because they look like garbage. Literal garbage. She admits that all her speeches of 'don't change who you are' fail when someone so radically hates what their body is and wants to change it... and a trans friend of her says yeah, people do that.

So I think the cure is a metaphor for curing homosexuality via shock therapy becomes muddled when you realize it can also be a metaphor for changing your body to fit who you believe you should be.

Well there are mutants that have their whole appearance changed due to their mutation. Like that one whose skin is transparent and that is his mutation. Nothing else. Or one where he is certainly powerful but his abilities causes destruction of his physical body.

Its nice to say you are perfect the way you are when you are Storm, an Omega level mutant who can access her powers without any effect to her body or appearance. Or Iceman who can look normal until he accesses his powers. All of these mutants can blend in with the non-mutants but there are those that can't.

[clearspira]

This argument died for me the moment that "looks like 00s Halle Berry and has the powers of a god" Storm gave a lecture to "i cannot kiss my boyfriend" Rogue and "leaves hair on the couch" Beast about how there is nothing to cure.

And as if to emphasise this, Iceman DOES split up with her and begins going out with Shadowcat over this! I know fans have bent over backwards to try and say no he didn't, but it really, really looks like he did.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Okay so genuine thing... in a recent X-Men book, Mirage (an X-Men character) finds out her speeches of 'you are beautiful on the inside' fail when a mutant DOES hate their body because they look like garbage. Literal garbage. She admits that all her speeches of 'don't change who you are' fail when someone so radically hates what their body is and wants to change it... and a trans friend of her says yeah, people do that.

So I think the cure is a metaphor for curing homosexuality via shock therapy becomes muddled when you realize it can also be a metaphor for changing your body to fit who you believe you should be.

I think autism might be a more suitable allegory.

[hammerofglass]

Okay so genuine thing... in a recent X-Men book, Mirage (an X-Men character) finds out her speeches of 'you are beautiful on the inside' fail when a mutant DOES hate their body because they look like garbage. Literal garbage. She admits that all her speeches of 'don't change who you are' fail when someone so radically hates what their body is and wants to change it... and a trans friend of her says yeah, people do that.

So I think the cure is a metaphor for curing homosexuality via shock therapy becomes muddled when you realize it can also be a metaphor for changing your body to fit who you believe you should be.

I think autism might be a more suitable allegory.

Even for autism, the person who masks around neurotipical people so they leave them the hell alone but otherwise just goes about their day and the person who is completely non-verbal and requires assistance for everything are going to have very different opinions about acceptance vs a cure.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Okay so genuine thing... in a recent X-Men book, Mirage (an X-Men character) finds out her speeches of 'you are beautiful on the inside' fail when a mutant DOES hate their body because they look like garbage. Literal garbage. She admits that all her speeches of 'don't change who you are' fail when someone so radically hates what their body is and wants to change it... and a trans friend of her says yeah, people do that.

So I think the cure is a metaphor for curing homosexuality via shock therapy becomes muddled when you realize it can also be a metaphor for changing your body to fit who you believe you should be.

I think autism might be a more suitable allegory.

Even for autism, the person who masks around neurotipical people so they leave them the hell alone but otherwise just goes about their day and the person who is completely non-verbal and requires assistance for everything are going to have very different opinions about acceptance vs a cure.

Right I don't believe I was speaking against such a point you might have been making. This dilemma though does fit quite well between that dynamic though, more so than the notion of a cure for homosexuality. The latter being commonplace regarded as rather more inhumane than something coded humans would exhibit.

[Winter]

Okay so genuine thing... in a recent X-Men book, Mirage (an X-Men character) finds out her speeches of 'you are beautiful on the inside' fail when a mutant DOES hate their body because they look like garbage. Literal garbage. She admits that all her speeches of 'don't change who you are' fail when someone so radically hates what their body is and wants to change it... and a trans friend of her says yeah, people do that.

So I think the cure is a metaphor for curing homosexuality via shock therapy becomes muddled when you realize it can also be a metaphor for changing your body to fit who you believe you should be.

I think autism might be a more suitable allegory.

Even for autism, the person who masks around neurotipical people so they leave them the hell alone but otherwise just goes about their day and the person who is completely non-verbal and requires assistance for everything are going to have very different opinions about acceptance vs a cure.

Right I don't believe I was speaking against such a point you might have been making. This dilemma though does fit quite well between that dynamic though, more so than the notion of a cure for homosexuality. The latter being commonplace regarded as rather more inhumane than something coded humans would exhibit.

This is what I mean, the "Cure" can be applied to a LOT of real world topics but it doesn't really fit any of them. It works in in a lot of different scenarios but is mainly talking about the ethics of using it on Mutants. Should it be used? Are mutants who wish to use it wrong for wanting to not have their powers or are mutants saying that nothing is wrong with any of them being insensitive and only really thinking about themselves.

And again there's the issue of turning the cure into a weapon and thus creating the means to force all mutants to be "Normal". But at the same time there are mutants, like Magneto, who have declared war against all humans and the X-Men cannot be everywhere and there are few means to stop Mutants if they decide to fight against us.

There's also the hypocrisy of Magneto in the films, he talks about the rights of mutants yet he fights against his own kind and even plans to murder other mutants and even comes close to kill his best friend several times because they stand against him.

This honestly is such a fascinating idea and that it can be compared to real world topics is so interesting and likely was the intent of the creators.

[sayla0079]

Mmm, not sure about that. What I meant by the holocaust being such a important moment in Magneto's life is because it's such a horrific real world event. I honestly think one of the most iconic moments in the films is the opening of the first film and how First Class expanded on that.

The idea that he was in hibernation I think would be a mistake. It would honestly be better to just redo his origin while maintaining the needless cruelty and horror. And sadly there are many ways to continue that.

We have no shortage of such examples of cruelty towards other people and especially towards the Jewish community.

I think instead of making him a holocaust survivor he's origin should be changed to someone who was attacked and he witnessed his mother's death. He was a poor kid who lived with his mom and then a bunch of monsters came to his home and attacked him and his mom for being a Jew.

It's horrifying and something that can happen at any time in any place. The real point of all this is to show us why Eric hates regular humans as he saw us at our worst, killing for something so stupid and evil that it all but destroyed the idea that that any human was good.

After that the rest is easy to work with, he was tortured by a mad scientist, got free, hunted him down, met Charles along the way, became friends, killed the SOB who killed his mother (who should be a human with no powers) and he and Charles had a falling out and then he became a super villain.

As said elsewhere, these media need to stop treading the same trodden paths. If you wanna take a character that has a rather horrific background, then there are plenty more recent happenings. Vietnam. Khmer Rouge. Rwandan Genocide. Heck, you could definitly score with the more progressive american crowd by just getting someone from Gaza (for good reason). Or have you seen how the PoWs Russia returns are looking like?

Just modernize already. Batman Beyond worked pretty well. Why not expand on it?

We haven't seen her in a while but there was a character named Dust that was for lack of a better term a refugee from Afghanistan during the height of the war (The X-men detected her with Cerebro and saved her from a slave ring) similar to what you suggested but she went the EXACT opposite direction of Magneto.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Okay so genuine thing... in a recent X-Men book, Mirage (an X-Men character) finds out her speeches of 'you are beautiful on the inside' fail when a mutant DOES hate their body because they look like garbage. Literal garbage. She admits that all her speeches of 'don't change who you are' fail when someone so radically hates what their body is and wants to change it... and a trans friend of her says yeah, people do that.

So I think the cure is a metaphor for curing homosexuality via shock therapy becomes muddled when you realize it can also be a metaphor for changing your body to fit who you believe you should be.

I think autism might be a more suitable allegory.

Even for autism, the person who masks around neurotipical people so they leave them the hell alone but otherwise just goes about their day and the person who is completely non-verbal and requires assistance for everything are going to have very different opinions about acceptance vs a cure.

Right I don't believe I was speaking against such a point you might have been making. This dilemma though does fit quite well between that dynamic though, more so than the notion of a cure for homosexuality. The latter being commonplace regarded as rather more inhumane than something coded humans would exhibit.

This is what I mean, the "Cure" can be applied to a LOT of real world topics but it doesn't really fit any of them. It works in in a lot of different scenarios but is mainly talking about the ethics of using it on Mutants. Should it be used? Are mutants who wish to use it wrong for wanting to not have their powers or are mutants saying that nothing is wrong with any of them being insensitive and only really thinking about themselves.

I don't think it's very ambiguous. It depicts a mostly quiet kid sitting alone in a sterile environment among a very introverted setting. It's a very fitting theme for autism considering there is a real world controversy surrounding the fundamental idea of autism being a negative disposition that should be regarded as needing to be cured.

There's also the hypocrisy of Magneto in the films, he talks about the rights of mutants yet he fights against his own kind and even plans to murder other mutants and even comes close to kill his best friend several times because they stand against him.

This honestly is such a fascinating idea and that it can be compared to real world topics is so interesting and likely was the intent of the creators.

I don't think it's any kind of failing in narrative when you have a categorical villain that has inconsistency in his applied moral agenda.

Collective pursuits at the expense of individual dispositions aren't totally uncommon on either the dark or light side.

[Winter]

Okay so genuine thing... in a recent X-Men book, Mirage (an X-Men character) finds out her speeches of 'you are beautiful on the inside' fail when a mutant DOES hate their body because they look like garbage. Literal garbage. She admits that all her speeches of 'don't change who you are' fail when someone so radically hates what their body is and wants to change it... and a trans friend of her says yeah, people do that.

So I think the cure is a metaphor for curing homosexuality via shock therapy becomes muddled when you realize it can also be a metaphor for changing your body to fit who you believe you should be.

I think autism might be a more suitable allegory.

Even for autism, the person who masks around neurotipical people so they leave them the hell alone but otherwise just goes about their day and the person who is completely non-verbal and requires assistance for everything are going to have very different opinions about acceptance vs a cure.

Right I don't believe I was speaking against such a point you might have been making. This dilemma though does fit quite well between that dynamic though, more so than the notion of a cure for homosexuality. The latter being commonplace regarded as rather more inhumane than something coded humans would exhibit.

This is what I mean, the "Cure" can be applied to a LOT of real world topics but it doesn't really fit any of them. It works in in a lot of different scenarios but is mainly talking about the ethics of using it on Mutants. Should it be used? Are mutants who wish to use it wrong for wanting to not have their powers or are mutants saying that nothing is wrong with any of them being insensitive and only really thinking about themselves.

I don't think it's very ambiguous. It depicts a mostly quiet kid sitting alone in a sterile environment among a very introverted setting. It's a very fitting theme for autism considering there is a real world controversy surrounding the fundamental idea of autism being a negative disposition that should be regarded as needing to be cured.

There's also the hypocrisy of Magneto in the films, he talks about the rights of mutants yet he fights against his own kind and even plans to murder other mutants and even comes close to kill his best friend several times because they stand against him.

This honestly is such a fascinating idea and that it can be compared to real world topics is so interesting and likely was the intent of the creators.

I don't think it's any kind of failing in narrative when you have a categorical villain that has inconsistency in his applied moral agenda.

Collective pursuits at the expense of individual dispositions aren't totally uncommon on either the dark or light side.

I don't think it's any kinda of failing of the narrative either, if anything I like that this is in here as it's pretty consistent with Magneto in the films. He is a hypocrite, he isn't as noble as he wants others to believe and he is just as dangerous as the monsters he claims humans to be. Yet he does bring up good points, for all the X-Men have done they have been targeted and attacked even though they didn't do anything to the humans and even saved them several times.