The Matrix is a Trans Allegory now

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Yup. Not their fault if you looked at it through a cis lens.

Is that another way of saying ''we looked at it as a film about robots enslaving humanity rather than some secret story about transpeople?''

It's a way of saying, as a cis person, you miss things that are obvious to trans people. As a straight person, you miss things that are clear to gay people. Your perspective is not the only perspective or even the most valid or rational. And trans people tend to pick up more on trans allegories than cis people do.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Lana was the first with being officially full transitioned by 2008 and then making her first public appearance by 2012. From what I read, there were rumors in early 2000's.

Look I don't doubt the W Sisters see The Matrix series as a Trans allegory. But to say it was obvious from the start for others than them, is just dishonest. It's only obvious in hindsight.

Obvious in hindsight is very different from "wasn't an allegory in any way, and that was invented at a later date" like ClearSpira is arguing. The fact that Superman started as an expression of anger of Jewish people towards bigotry wasn't especially obvious to the readers, who loved the stories of the super strong guy beating up assholes. It's obvious in hindsight though, once you listen to the creators and learn a little about them.

Tbh, originally I was like that myself. But the more I thought about it I realized that since both of the W Sisters had to have the feelings during the filming of the first movie that it made sense for them to view their work as that. Especially when you research it, they barely talk about their own transitions and the lead up to it.

But yeah, in hindsight you can see it. But at the time the viewer wouldn't have seen it as that. It's why it was used as a alegory of anything. Even Flat Earthers...

You keep talking about it in terms of what someone sees in.

Like above, you're saying that it's acceptable that the W sisters see it as a trans allegory themselves. Like why do you care about the post production interpretation of it, almost as if the writers aren't in any position to know further, more innately, what the story they wrote is about? To the point where you're comparing her "interpretation" of it to flat-earthers...

Clearspira is suggesting that they're partisan hacks on the matter, and that's not something you can really prove either way. It's in the realm of plausibility, while even 7 years of fully transmission is rather probably that the original story was influenced through their identity issues.

[Draco Dracul]

It's certainly something you can read into the film especially as themes of identity are strong throughout it, and it's quite easy to translate that into the Wachowskis starting to come to grips with their gender identity.

[McAvoy]

Lana was the first with being officially full transitioned by 2008 and then making her first public appearance by 2012. From what I read, there were rumors in early 2000's.

Look I don't doubt the W Sisters see The Matrix series as a Trans allegory. But to say it was obvious from the start for others than them, is just dishonest. It's only obvious in hindsight.

Obvious in hindsight is very different from "wasn't an allegory in any way, and that was invented at a later date" like ClearSpira is arguing. The fact that Superman started as an expression of anger of Jewish people towards bigotry wasn't especially obvious to the readers, who loved the stories of the super strong guy beating up assholes. It's obvious in hindsight though, once you listen to the creators and learn a little about them.

Tbh, originally I was like that myself. But the more I thought about it I realized that since both of the W Sisters had to have the feelings during the filming of the first movie that it made sense for them to view their work as that. Especially when you research it, they barely talk about their own transitions and the lead up to it.

But yeah, in hindsight you can see it. But at the time the viewer wouldn't have seen it as that. It's why it was used as a alegory of anything. Even Flat Earthers...

You keep talking about it in terms of what someone sees in.

Like above, you're saying that it's acceptable that the W sisters see it as a trans allegory themselves. Like why do you care about the post production interpretation of it, almost as if the writers aren't in any position to know further, more innately, what the story they wrote is about? To the point where you're comparing her "interpretation" of it to flat-earthers...

Clearspira is suggesting that they're partisan hacks on the matter, and that's not something you can really prove either way. It's in the realm of plausibility, while even 7 years of fully transmission is rather probably that the original story was influenced through their identity issues.

Of course I am talking about what the viewer sees in it. They are not keyed into what the directors or the writers are thinking when the movie(s) were written and made. Only they do.

The movies have been out long enough for people to have a position or view of the movies that is hard to change. When the movies came out they were a clean slate for people to take their own views or beliefs on. Fast forward 20 years later, it's harder to break than something that came out last year for example.

So yeah I can see people thinking this is just another 'well they are just saying that to be woke' or something.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Of course I am talking about what the viewer sees in it. They are not keyed into what the directors or the writers are thinking when the movie(s) were written and made. Only they do.

The movies have been out long enough for people to have a position or view of the movies that is hard to change. When the movies came out they were a clean slate for people to take their own views or beliefs on. Fast forward 20 years later, it's harder to break than something that came out last year for example.

So yeah I can see people thinking this is just another 'well they are just saying that to be woke' or something.

Is this supposed to be coming off as a mutually exclusive thing though between interpretations? Yes you can make any interpretation you want, but allegory isn't really approached like a trademark that's lost to public spoil.

Frankly speaking, whatever your interpretation of the material may be, trying to put yourself in the shoes of the writer in order to get a sense of where they're coming from with the material is pretty natural. People putting it together based on that revelation alone is somewhat more practical of an assessment then just general people who had an idea already.

[McAvoy]

Of course I am talking about what the viewer sees in it. They are not keyed into what the directors or the writers are thinking when the movie(s) were written and made. Only they do.

The movies have been out long enough for people to have a position or view of the movies that is hard to change. When the movies came out they were a clean slate for people to take their own views or beliefs on. Fast forward 20 years later, it's harder to break than something that came out last year for example.

So yeah I can see people thinking this is just another 'well they are just saying that to be woke' or something.

Is this supposed to be coming off as a mutually exclusive thing though between interpretations? Yes you can make any interpretation you want, but allegory isn't really approached like a trademark that's lost to public spoil.

Frankly speaking, whatever your interpretation of the material may be, trying to put yourself in the shoes of the writer in order to get a sense of where they're coming from with the material is pretty natural. People putting it together based on that revelation alone is somewhat more practical of an assessment then just general people who had an idea already.

OK.

What's the issue?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Of course I am talking about what the viewer sees in it. They are not keyed into what the directors or the writers are thinking when the movie(s) were written and made. Only they do.

The movies have been out long enough for people to have a position or view of the movies that is hard to change. When the movies came out they were a clean slate for people to take their own views or beliefs on. Fast forward 20 years later, it's harder to break than something that came out last year for example.

So yeah I can see people thinking this is just another 'well they are just saying that to be woke' or something.

Is this supposed to be coming off as a mutually exclusive thing though between interpretations? Yes you can make any interpretation you want, but allegory isn't really approached like a trademark that's lost to public spoil.

Frankly speaking, whatever your interpretation of the material may be, trying to put yourself in the shoes of the writer in order to get a sense of where they're coming from with the material is pretty natural. People putting it together based on that revelation alone is somewhat more practical of an assessment then just general people who had an idea already.

OK.

What's the issue?

Possibly nothing with your position actually. So I'm sorry if I seem to be pressing redundantly.

So the idea of the Matrix being a trans allegory I've seen floating around by internet movie review culture for like 5 years. Just on a logical level it seemed very hard not to consider this as an inspirational avenue for the Matrix's conception. Also the fact that both of the siblings made this kind of choice so close together gives a whole brewing of concealment in the art. There's literally no explicit text needed for an allegory.

So even the fact that it was affirmed by Lana is undermined somewhat by the attention that's already speculated on how it is applied as a trans allegory. The affirmation doesn't really change much going on.

The point of this thread on the other hand is asserting that, the idea of it being a trans allegory is outlandish and must be politically charged more so than for any factual account. Nobody is trying to argue that it can't represent anything else as an allegory, so I don't get the point in bringing that up unless to support what clearspira is saying, that there is some trademark of allegory already by red pills and others that what Lana said is for the birds.

[McAvoy]

Honestly my first jerked reaction was that it was that it was reinventing the history of the movie to suit the creators being trans now. But after some research, and incidentally another trans (the History Channel military historian from the late 90's to 00's) and reading up on that as well changed my mind.

My new position, it sounds obvious now but when the movie was released and even the Sequels later on, it wasn't that obvious. Which is why it was used as an allegory for anything where you 'open the mind to the real world' sort of thing.

I think anyone who cannot see it as a trans allegory now and after it was confirmed as a trans allegory has either secret or open bigotry of the trans community.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Oh I certainly didn't think of it until like 5 years ago until Rantasmo did a video on it.

[McAvoy]

Oh I certainly didn't think of it until like 5 years ago until Rantasmo did a video on it.

Like I said, the whole movie, the original one, can be used as an allegory for anything you can think of.

Supposeedly a fourth movie is being made, maybe we will see a man in the Matrix and a woman in the real world. Or if they want to go a bit further the other way around. Seeing that less common than the M2F.