Watching ST all the way through (on DS9 Season 5)

[Frustration]

There are a few bits I find disturbing, such as the amount you're monitored and tracked on a starship, and I've got the impression it's not hard to find anyone on Earth (although that's often true enough for any TV or show where finding people isn't part of the plot). But I certainly doubt that there's any intention by the writers for there to be anything authoritarian about it.

Indeed, the culture aboard the Enterprise, and presumably on other ships of the fleet, is totally against abuse of that technology. Diane Duane's Dark Mirror does a great job of showing how those technologies are used to oppress by having our beloved crew infiltrate the version of their ship from the Mirror Universe, and it's nightmarish. DS9 touched a little on the ways holodeck technology can be used to manipulate and test people for their secret beliefs, and multiple alien species have technology that can be used to force people to experience decades worth of time in a few minutes. Even the control panels sample your DNA every time you touch them, to confirm that you're authorized to enter commands.

Technology inherently leads to authoritarian systems, because the most advanced technology can only be created by society, not individuals. People can't construct microchips in their garages, it requires an entire industrial base and scores of dedicated professions, all modifying each others' output.

[Riedquat]

There are a few bits I find disturbing, such as the amount you're monitored and tracked on a starship, and I've got the impression it's not hard to find anyone on Earth (although that's often true enough for any TV or show where finding people isn't part of the plot). But I certainly doubt that there's any intention by the writers for there to be anything authoritarian about it.

Indeed, the culture aboard the Enterprise, and presumably on other ships of the fleet, is totally against abuse of that technology. Diane Duane's Dark Mirror does a great job of showing how those technologies are used to oppress by having our beloved crew infiltrate the version of their ship from the Mirror Universe, and it's nightmarish. DS9 touched a little on the ways holodeck technology can be used to manipulate and test people for their secret beliefs, and multiple alien species have technology that can be used to force people to experience decades worth of time in a few minutes. Even the control panels sample your DNA every time you touch them, to confirm that you're authorized to enter commands.

Technology inherently leads to authoritarian systems, because the most advanced technology can only be created by society, not individuals. People can't construct microchips in their garages, it requires an entire industrial base and scores of dedicated professions, all modifying each others' output.

Agree with you about the points in Trek, but not so sure about the more general ones of technology (and I'm not remotely technology's biggest fan, feel it's gone way too far, with electronics sneaking in to every little aspect of life rather than for entertainment and stuff where it makes a real difference, such as pushing medical research, I find a lot of the rest rather obnoxious). And that's true for all sorts of technology - it doesn't need to get to the level of microchips, it was true once we got much beyond stone axes, log rollers and levers, and simple bows. Extracting, smelting, and using metal, whilst not in theory beyond an individual's capability without pre-created technology (if they know what they're doing and are lucky enough to have easy surface-accessible ores nearby) is in practice something that requires a functioning society.

It certainly can be used in that disturbing, oppressive way, and the more advanced it gets the more plausible it gets - the lack of privacy it's already producing would've horrified people not that long ago - but I doubt it's inevitable.

[clearspira]

I wouldn't say technology inherently leads to authoritarian systems when it is widely believed that it was technology such as the contraceptive pill and the gun (which removed the male physical strength advantage from combat) are two of the fundamental reasons for female emancipation. It is unlikely to be a coincidence that men managed to keep women down right up until the industrial revolution and then suddenly let women have their turn.

[Frustration]

"My fellow Earthicans, we enjoy so much freedom it's almost sickening. We're free to choose which hand our sex-monitoring chip is implanted in. And if we don't want to pay our taxes, why, we're free to spend a weekend with the Pain Monster."

Cars already require so many internal computers to function that the police can shut them down with a targeted EM pulse. The online mapping systems of some modern cars permit their location to be tracked. And as soon as automated drivers become sophisticated enough, I fully expect manual driving to be made illegal.

[Riedquat]

Cars already require so many internal computers to function that the police can shut them down with a targeted EM pulse. The online mapping systems of some modern cars permit their location to be tracked. And as soon as automated drivers become sophisticated enough, I fully expect manual driving to be made illegal.

A future many seem to look forward to, and one I find the idea of incredibly depressing. I've found the whole business of chip shortages affecting car production totally ludicrous.

Cue the usual "how can anyone possibly not like it?!" brigade.

Bring on the world of Wall-E it seems (although even the tech-obsessed will hope for it without the rubbish).

[clearspira]

"My fellow Earthicans, we enjoy so much freedom it's almost sickening. We're free to choose which hand our sex-monitoring chip is implanted in. And if we don't want to pay our taxes, why, we're free to spend a weekend with the Pain Monster."

Cars already require so many internal computers to function that the police can shut them down with a targeted EM pulse. The online mapping systems of some modern cars permit their location to be tracked. And as soon as automated drivers become sophisticated enough, I fully expect manual driving to be made illegal.

I have never ever heard of that happening and I watch a lot of those real life car chase shows. No least because ''targeted EM pulse'' sounds like something from a video game.

[clearspira]

Cars already require so many internal computers to function that the police can shut them down with a targeted EM pulse. The online mapping systems of some modern cars permit their location to be tracked. And as soon as automated drivers become sophisticated enough, I fully expect manual driving to be made illegal.

Bring on the world of Wall-E it seems (although even the tech-obsessed will hope for it without the rubbish).

Technology brings sloth. It is inevitable. Look at how much of the human race is already fat and lazy - and we are still only really at the dawn of AI.
The future of Wall-E where we are all too fat to move. I can see it happening because it is already happening.

[Madner Kami]

People becoming fat or lazy isn't a result of technology, it's a result of people being people. If you think obesety is something new to humanity, than you haven't paid attention to history. Pretty much everyone who could afford it, had a few kilos too much and slothed around.

https://www.medievalists.net/2020/06/fa ... ddle-ages/

[Frustration]

I have never ever heard of that happening and I watch a lot of those real life car chase shows. No least because ''targeted EM pulse'' sounds like something from a video game.

"That sounds like science fiction."

"We live in a space ship, dear."

"So?"

[Riedquat]

People becoming fat or lazy isn't a result of technology, it's a result of people being people. If you think obesety is something new to humanity, than you haven't paid attention to history. Pretty much everyone who could afford it, had a few kilos too much and slothed around.

But it's the change in technology that means large numbers of people end up like that.

It's understandable - we evolved in conditions where getting enough food to get by was difficult, so preserving energy and being able to store reserves when you get the chance to stuff yourself (thus encouraging stuffing yourself beyond your immediate needs when the opportunity was there) no doubt contributed significantly to our survival. But evolution just provides the instinct to eat and laze, there's no "and stop here if conditions change" - it's the outcome that matters, rather than the immediate drives, so as long as they fulfill the outcome they remain. So it's no wonder a species that can provide those drives with more ends up overdoing it, even if it doesn't do us any good or make us any happier in the long run.