She-Ra and the Princesses of Power

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Riedquat, nobody assumes that kids are too young to know they're straight or cisgender. Society actively pushes that on them, yet when somebody says "maybe this kid should be allowed to wear a dress instead of a suit if they don't feel comfortable in boy clothes", people act like it's a radical SJW feminist agenda being pushed on an innocent child instead of the child not being forced to be somebody they aren't.

[Karha of Honor]

Riedquat, nobody assumes that kids are too young to know they're straight or cisgender. Society actively pushes that on them, yet when somebody says "maybe this kid should be allowed to wear a dress instead of a suit if they don't feel comfortable in boy clothes", people act like it's a radical SJW feminist agenda being pushed on an innocent child instead of the child not being forced to be somebody they aren't.

The progs have no proeblem forcing adults not being what they are by pc culture. Sorry the trust is not there.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Now we just need this for trans kids.

I mean, the show's creators wouldn't be looking forward exactly to the ungodly firestorm of butthurt it'll provoke, but that's nothing new and they've already pretty clearly shown they're not the type to back off on that account - so I'd be genuinely surprised if nobody's ever put their hand up in a writers meeting and said "So hey, idea, Flutterina is trans, what do you reckon?"

(That's not a spoiler, I haven't heard anything - I just added MOTUC Flutterina to my collection a couple weeks back so she's been on my mind.)

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Scorpia is adorable, but I'm 97% sure that Catra is just using her. Any day now she's gonna go full "I never liked your spinach puffs!" to our precious innocent lobster gal.

[Riedquat]

Riedquat, nobody assumes that kids are too young to know they're straight or cisgender. Society actively pushes that on them, yet when somebody says "maybe this kid should be allowed to wear a dress instead of a suit if they don't feel comfortable in boy clothes", people act like it's a radical SJW feminist agenda being pushed on an innocent child instead of the child not being forced to be somebody they aren't.

Kids aren't straight or anything else. They're just children. Sure, there are social norms involved and some differ whether they're a boy or girl (there are also plenty of others which having nothing to do with that), although the very idea that one particular set of clothing is more comfortable for someone than another, other than the obvious aspects like "does it fit", is only possible by acknowledging and accepting them anyway. But the point I'm trying to make is that questions of gender identity are really meaningless before puberty.

[MissKittyFantastico]

I have actually been wondering about the Horde trio (Best Enemies Squad?) these past few days. I feel like you're right in how Catra thinks of her relationship to Scorpia, but... I dunno. Even in moving Catra out of ambiguity and into 'no seriously, antagonist' towards Adora following the whole Crystal Castle adventure, I don't see that they've painted her into that corner - she thinks she's put Adora behind her and fully embraced her Horde side, but I don't believe she's eradicated that part of herself. And following on from that, I don't feel like Catra will prove immune to getting attached to this awesome (albeit goofy) lady who's got her back no questions asked, and genuinely likes her as a person. Scorpia is to Catra as Catra used to be to Adora, in a way - except where Catra used to needle and challenge Adora, Scorpia is just unquestioningly supportive.

So having lost that friendship/whatever love relationship with Adora, and now finding herself back in the same kind of relationship, only she's the one 'in charge' - even if Catra's not recognising that relationship consciously and telling herself that sort of thinking doesn't apply to her anymore, I can imagine it being hell on her if she had to give it up. Of course she's so fixated on being the villain she thinks she is that I can imagine her tossing Scorpia away when it seemed 'necessary' to her own ambition, but if that happens I'd wager real money Catra'll find herself later on with a crushing sense of "oh god what have I done".

What I'm wondering, too, is where Scorpia's loyalties will ultimately lie. Obviously she's wholly got Catra's back, but is that still just because she's loyal to the Horde and Catra's her superior? Princess Prom did tease a little more than a professional relationship between them, and there's been plenty of time for them to bond in the course of their scheming and whatnot. I feel like it's a given that, at some point, Catra's going to go rogue - not good, but her ambitions are so tied up in personal motives I can't see them aligning with what Hordak wants forever, at some point she's going to be told 'no', and she's not the type to fall in line. Does Scorpia still have her back then, against the Horde? I can imagine that.

Plus Entrapta seems like this ultimate wild card - Catra's friendship for her seems entirely feigned, but I don't know if I'd rule out the trio having bonded enough nonetheless that Catra would just cut Entrapta loose without a second thought (or, in the back of my mind, that Scorpia would let her - I've got this little blinking light in my head saying, at some point down the track, Scorpia's not just going to let Catra keep on isolating herself). And Entrapta's not loyal at all to the Horde, she's just so focused on her research that if Hordak hands her the tools she needs, she doesn't even bother thinking at any strings attached. Like Scorpia, in the back of my mind I'm imagining a point where Entrapta does start thinking about those strings, and if she decides to cut them she's going to do it in dramatic fashion, like Shannon Foraker "Oops" dramatic. Bottom line I don't know which direction they might go, but all the possibilities I can think of seem fun.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Riedquat, nobody assumes that kids are too young to know they're straight or cisgender. Society actively pushes that on them, yet when somebody says "maybe this kid should be allowed to wear a dress instead of a suit if they don't feel comfortable in boy clothes", people act like it's a radical SJW feminist agenda being pushed on an innocent child instead of the child not being forced to be somebody they aren't.

Kids aren't straight or anything else. They're just children. Sure, there are social norms involved and some differ whether they're a boy or girl (there are also plenty of others which having nothing to do with that), although the very idea that one particular set of clothing is more comfortable for someone than another, other than the obvious aspects like "does it fit", is only possible by acknowledging and accepting them anyway. But the point I'm trying to make is that questions of gender identity are really meaningless before puberty.

No, they aren't, because trans kids who are forced into the closet kill themselves before puberty. Kids are definitely treated as if they are straight, and plenty of wholesome kids cartoons are full of straight romances and straight narratives.

[Starbug]

Ever start a thread that you think is going to be people discussing a show about magical Princesses and talking horses, and it just spirals out of all control in a completely different direction?

[Riedquat]

No, they aren't, because trans kids who are forced into the closet kill themselves before puberty. Kids are definitely treated as if they are straight, and plenty of wholesome kids cartoons are full of straight romances and straight narratives.

Some children won't sit in line with various social norms, for whatever reason, which can result in them being treated incredibly badly; society has a poor track record of that and other children can be particularly vicious. What I don't agree with is that there's any real identity of the sort you described at that age, straight, gay, trans, whatever. You're projecting adult viewpoints and senses on to children. Children are not small adults. I don't think there really is such a thing as a childhood romance for that matter, not in the way adults understand the word, although children will ape adult behaviour. Two boys might give each other a hug, and that wouldn't appear on TV - you'd get rabid lunatics screaming "gay children on TV! End of the world!" at that yet the children themselves wouldn't understand what the fuss was all about simply because it wouldn't really mean anything to them.

When they get a bit older - still children, say early teens, that starts to change, that's when curiosity about all sorts starts to appear and whilst you can probably get some idea of someone's eventual orientation at that stage it's not going to be all that much more reliable than just playing the odds. A boy might sneak on his mum's or sister's dresses when there's no-one around for example. Maybe it'll be something he stays with, maybe not. It's not a good idea to read too much in to it, although as above if other kids find out they'll probably make his life miserable about it (and so will some adults), and that's a problem.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

What I don't agree with is that there's any real identity of the sort you described at that age, straight, gay, trans, whatever.

Citation needed.