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Admiral X wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:02 am When TFA came out, I was ready to like Rey. I was hoping that with her being a scavenger that we'd get a different but interesting character. But she ended up being not all that interesting, largely because there wasn't much to her aside from being a bit too perfect. There was no drama, and even as I watched I got the feeling that the writers were afraid to have anything bad happen to her. Honestly I really wanted to like all the characters, until the writing just didn't do anything for them. Even worse, they basically did a character assassination on Han and Luke. TLJ came off as especially spiteful toward the original movies, and I couldn't help but get the feeling that Kylo Ren's line about killing the past was actually the writer/director speaking directly to the audience.

Fixer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:02 amExactly what kind of business model are you trying to achieve here where you're actively appearing to piss off those people that have sunk the most time and money into your product.

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:52 am

Fixer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:02 amExactly what kind of business model are you trying to achieve here where you're actively appearing to piss off those people that have sunk the most time and money into your product.

It stands to facetious reason, that the ideal demographic to cater to with such behaviour, are trolls and russians (who I sometimes can only percieve as a nation of naturally born professional internet trolls). It appears they are successful, as trolls are clearly attracted to the property. Whether that's financially viable, is up to debate.

Fixer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:02 am

Admiral X wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:02 am When TFA came out, I was ready to like Rey. I was hoping that with her being a scavenger that we'd get a different but interesting character. But she ended up being not all that interesting, largely because there wasn't much to her aside from being a bit too perfect. There was no drama, and even as I watched I got the feeling that the writers were afraid to have anything bad happen to her. Honestly I really wanted to like all the characters, until the writing just didn't do anything for them. Even worse, they basically did a character assassination on Han and Luke. TLJ came off as especially spiteful toward the original movies, and I couldn't help but get the feeling that Kylo Ren's line about killing the past was actually the writer/director speaking directly to the audience.

You can add Rian Johnson's "Your Snoke theory sucks" approach to the fans as well.

I mostly avoided making any fan theories because I'm familiar with JJ's mystery box writing but there were a lot of Star Wars fans that picked up all the tie in material to The Force Awakens which added all these hints about Snoke's mysterious origin, or the importance of finding Luke and the mystery of why he sought the first Jedi temple. Then the entire movie was a troll to say all the time invested in that was worthless.

There was one YouTube content creator, Dash Star I think but correct me if I'm wrong, that said he wasn't going to buy any more tie in materials now as they're pointless.

Exactly what kind of business model are you trying to achieve here where you're actively appearing to piss off those people that have sunk the most time and money into your product.

GandALF wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:39 pm If Lucas can't have authority over what Star Wars should be, then no one can. You killed God and now anything is permitted.

Just be like Rich Evans and admit you haven't liked Star Wars since 1983.

Worffan101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:57 pm On one hand, tie-ins are typically explicitly noncanon or semi-canon, so I usually don't have much sympathy for people busy whining about that stuff being contradicted. Sometimes, canon marches on.

On the flip side, that's also lost revenue for Disney, and with TLJ making about 2/3 of TFA's gross and Solo crashing and burning, there is a strong argument to be made that they NEED that revenue.

The real test, though, is going to be Episode 9. Just like BvS killed the DCEU but it was Justice League that took the fall, there's a good chance that TLJ will kill this iteration of Star Wars, and it's Episode 9 that bites it. Basically, if Episode 9 makes lots of money (as in, over 1.5 billion), Kennedy is vindicated and was right the whole time to ignore long-haul fans in favor of attempts at outreach to the public. If it makes a billion or less? Kennedy needs to go.

Also, as for Rey--I liked her OK. She was a little OP in TFA but largely was just ANH Luke with tits. The problem came in TLJ where the casino plot and the constant Kylo Ren shilling took away from her character development.

Fixer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:02 am

Admiral X wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:02 am When TFA came out, I was ready to like Rey. I was hoping that with her being a scavenger that we'd get a different but interesting character. But she ended up being not all that interesting, largely because there wasn't much to her aside from being a bit too perfect. There was no drama, and even as I watched I got the feeling that the writers were afraid to have anything bad happen to her. Honestly I really wanted to like all the characters, until the writing just didn't do anything for them. Even worse, they basically did a character assassination on Han and Luke. TLJ came off as especially spiteful toward the original movies, and I couldn't help but get the feeling that Kylo Ren's line about killing the past was actually the writer/director speaking directly to the audience.

You can add Rian Johnson's "Your Snoke theory sucks" approach to the fans as well.

I mostly avoided making any fan theories because I'm familiar with JJ's mystery box writing but there were a lot of Star Wars fans that picked up all the tie in material to The Force Awakens which added all these hints about Snoke's mysterious origin, or the importance of finding Luke and the mystery of why he sought the first Jedi temple. Then the entire movie was a troll to say all the time invested in that was worthless.

There was one YouTube content creator, Dash Star I think but correct me if I'm wrong, that said he wasn't going to buy any more tie in materials now as they're pointless.

Exactly what kind of business model are you trying to achieve here where you're actively appearing to piss off those people that have sunk the most time and money into your product.

If Kennedy decides to move on, perhaps after the release of Episode IX (maybe because the insane media reaction is having the same effect on her that it did on George Lucas), so be it. The notion that Kennedy should step down or be fired because some fans (for reasons either subjectively valid or rooted in racism and sexism) didn’t like The Last Jedi and because Solo flopped is absurd and toxic (insert a gif of Harvey Dent screaming "You can't let them win!"). Even with the behind-the-scenes director squabbles, the sausage created by the producer of E.T., Jurassic Park, Twister and The Sixth Sense has mostly come out smelling great.


Yes, Solo: A Star Wars Story was an under-$400 million bomb. But, putting aside the ironic “first new Star Wars movie starring a white guy flops” thing, the franchise is still flying high. You say Kathleen Kennedy is ruining Star Wars, but her first four Star Wars movies she produced for Disney earned mostly positive reviews, straight-A CinemaScore grades and a combined $4.775 billion worldwide on a combined production and marketing cost of around $1.6b. Her first four Star Wars movies (Force Awakens, Rogue One, Last Jedi and Solo) have averaged $1.2b worldwide. That’s the biggest “average” gross for any franchise ever, even considering inflation, overseas expansion and 3D/IMAX/D-Box bumps.