Is Disney finally ditching WOKE politics?

[CharlesPhipps]

I think that stories are constantly rewritten and retold.

There's no "one" Superman.

Superman was once from Metropolis

Then he became from Kansas.

Was he born in the 1900s?

Was he born in the 1980s?

A black Superman is a different Superman than Superman from Lois and Clark.

But so is every version.

[Captain Crimson]

I think that stories are constantly rewritten and retold.

There's no "one" Superman.

Superman was once from Metropolis

Then he became from Kansas.

Was he born in the 1900s?

Was he born in the 1980s?

A black Superman is a different Superman than Superman from Lois and Clark.

But so is every version.

I could accept a black Superman from, say, Earth-918293, even in a movie format that's meant to hit mainstream audiences, unless that universe was replacing the prime universe. So my point stands, make up your own black Kryptonian in that world, perhaps even from Kal-El's DNA in a clone. Though is this just being done to score points? That's another question I have. If they were separate but equally valid parallel universes, very well then, go ahead. I'm only against race-lifting and gender swaps when it's clearly supplanting the older material, or when there's corporate revisionism surrounding it, because I hate reboots.

Take TA Hulk. I have no issues with an Asian Hulk, except that it's replacing the Bruce Banner Hulk. That's just shameless. The two should be able to coexist. So these woke corporate types don't want equality, but PC authority/AA type management, the least important being the het white male. It's just how I see it, and it shouldn't be that way. That doesn't help egalitarianism. I do agree with an earlier post that Mr. Jackson's Nick Fury was a stellar role. That said, he was cast for being the right one for the job, and that's an alternate universe, not meant to upend the older lore, but work within it and pay homage to it while doing its own fresh thing.

I observe no one is really challenging me on the Disney front, though. You better believe RO is part of the woke agenda problem. Just make up your own female characters, don't butcher the great women in past lore and shove aside the men to do this. It's hurtful to both male and female characters. And treats the fans like idiots. You don't think there's a double standard here when they diminish Mr. Boyega's role on the TFA poster? He doesn't get to do anything but scream "REEEEYYYY!!!" through the whole ST! And his template had so much more potential than that...

[CharlesPhipps]

I could accept a black Superman from, say, Earth-918293, even in a movie format that's meant to hit mainstream audiences, unless that universe was replacing the prime universe. So my point stands, make up your own black Kryptonian in that world, perhaps even from Kal-El's DNA in a clone. Though is this just being done to score points? That's another question I have. If they were separate but equally valid parallel universes, very well then, go ahead. I'm only against race-lifting and gender swaps when it's clearly supplanting the older material, or when there's corporate revisionism surrounding it, because I hate reboots.

Take TA Hulk. I have no issues with an Asian Hulk, except that it's replacing the Bruce Banner Hulk. That's just shameless. The two should be able to coexist. So these woke corporate types don't want equality, but PC authority/AA type management, the least important being the het white male. It's just how I see it, and it shouldn't be that way. That doesn't help egalitarianism. I do agree with an earlier post that Mr. Jackson's Nick Fury was a stellar role. That said, he was cast for being the right one for the job, and that's an alternate universe, not meant to upend the older lore, but work within it and pay homage to it while doing its own fresh thing.

I observe no one is really challenging me on the Disney front, though. You better believe RO is part of the woke agenda problem. Just make up your own female characters, don't butcher the great women in past lore and shove aside the men to do this. It's hurtful to both male and female characters. And treats the fans like idiots. You don't think there's a double standard here when they diminish Mr. Boyega's role on the TFA poster? He doesn't get to do anything but scream "REEEEYYYY!!!" through the whole ST! And his template had so much more potential than that...

I'm just saying there's no Earth-1 Superman except as the writers say.

Say there's CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS AGAIN AND AGAIN.

And afterward, Alurra El is black and so is Jor-El.

So Superman is black.

He's born in 2000 and is now 20, just joining the Daily Planet.

That's the new Superman and I'm like, "Okay."

Because that's how comics work.

[Captain Crimson]

I could accept a black Superman from, say, Earth-918293, even in a movie format that's meant to hit mainstream audiences, unless that universe was replacing the prime universe. So my point stands, make up your own black Kryptonian in that world, perhaps even from Kal-El's DNA in a clone. Though is this just being done to score points? That's another question I have. If they were separate but equally valid parallel universes, very well then, go ahead. I'm only against race-lifting and gender swaps when it's clearly supplanting the older material, or when there's corporate revisionism surrounding it, because I hate reboots.

Take TA Hulk. I have no issues with an Asian Hulk, except that it's replacing the Bruce Banner Hulk. That's just shameless. The two should be able to coexist. So these woke corporate types don't want equality, but PC authority/AA type management, the least important being the het white male. It's just how I see it, and it shouldn't be that way. That doesn't help egalitarianism. I do agree with an earlier post that Mr. Jackson's Nick Fury was a stellar role. That said, he was cast for being the right one for the job, and that's an alternate universe, not meant to upend the older lore, but work within it and pay homage to it while doing its own fresh thing.

I observe no one is really challenging me on the Disney front, though. You better believe RO is part of the woke agenda problem. Just make up your own female characters, don't butcher the great women in past lore and shove aside the men to do this. It's hurtful to both male and female characters. And treats the fans like idiots. You don't think there's a double standard here when they diminish Mr. Boyega's role on the TFA poster? He doesn't get to do anything but scream "REEEEYYYY!!!" through the whole ST! And his template had so much more potential than that...

I'm just saying there's no Earth-1 Superman except as the writers say.

Say there's CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS AGAIN AND AGAIN.

And afterward, Alurra El is black and so is Jor-El.

So Superman is black.

He's born in 2000 and is now 20, just joining the Daily Planet.

That's the new Superman and I'm like, "Okay."

Because that's how comics work.

My last thought before bed.

And I'll Saitama the meme there too. "Okay."

I could accept it, depends on the circumstances and what the management was trying to do.

And you're still haven't addressed what DSW is doing, taking older lore, reshuffling it, propping up the female character, jettisoning the male character, and even butchering her name, likely so the old authors won't sue them, all to maximize profits and minimize effort. And everything I see from Mr. Chuck's reviews says this has been happening a long time, like how Paramount's corporate leaders preach leftist values, never lived up to them. But at least they never tried to rewrite their own history like Disney LF is doing RN. At least TNG and DS9 weren't looking to past material to plunder and steal to claim as their own, there was a lot more creativity going into the management, whatever else you can say of Mr. Berman's flaws.

[CharlesPhipps]

Chuck hates Michael Burnham.

Because she basically is a character the show is desperate for us to like and the more effort was expended in trying to make us like her, the less likable she became. I like Michael fine but she's easily eye-rollingly irritating in how much the show forces her on us as the action commando heroine savior who is related to Spock and the Red Angel.

She's 200% more likable when the rest of the show's characters are given room to breathe and people call her out on her bullshit. I also have noticed the irony that they made her the MOST emotional character on the show despite this making no sense.

As for retcons with Spock? That's like 90% of Spock's history. "Oh, this is my brother you've never met. My father is ambassador to Earth and I'm half human."

[Riedquat]

With apologies to Q, oh please.

The reply of someone with nothing to say there.

[Riedquat]

If diverse casting isn’t such a big deal for some of you then why do care at all?

Here’s my reaction to when they cast a black man as Superman:

“Okay, whatever, hope he’s great in the role.”

Then I move the fuck on. Whereas assholes like Doomcock will post several videos about how the left has ruined entertainment.

I've no problem with casting per se. Few people do. I do have a problem with casting for political reasons, because of an agenda unrelated to the story, and for unnecessary retconning. Plenty of people have issues with that. What are the motives behind any piece of casting (or writing)? Well who can say for certain, but if you don't think you can deny there's reason to question them without properly looking at the complaints. Refusing to look at the complaints, dismissing them as inevitably down to prejudice because they don't fit with how you want things to be is very definitely prejudice to begin with.

Pick a well-known black character and re-cast them as white - you'd probably be getting all up in arms there. Better just to create a new character.

Get the fuck over it bitch.

If that's the sort of language you resort to towards people you disagree with you're the one who needs to get over it.

[Riedquat]

DSWC is pilfering from past lore without ever giving nods of respect to it, and acting like they invented it, and watering it down in the process, to boot. Do you think they're ever going to admit where they got the ideas for Rey and Jyn Erso? No, they don't want to be sued.

Who's to know? I didn't have a problem with Jyn Erso, and Rey's problem was really that she's completely over-powered. So taken in isolation no issue. But when you start getting several characters who seem to fit an agenda then people rightly start to wonder. The backlash against those people who are wondering just reinforces their opinion.

[Riedquat]

But why is it an inherent change that matters? If we're in this glorious post-racial future.

For that matter, why does superman have to be white when he's an allegory for the minority immigrant experience? I saw a post where somebody make a pretty good case for all Clark Kent's friends assuming he's an undocumented immigrant. (Especially because, if we want to get technical, he is.)

Unforutnately we're not in a glorious post-racial feature, we're slipping in to one where race is mattering more and more.

For the point of view of that story it doesn't matter what Superman's physical characteristics are, but there are certain aspects of him that as well-known - the outfit, being called Clark Kent, works at the Daily Planet - and yes, he's got white skin and black hair. That's just what the character is. How many of those can you change and still really have the same character? When does it start to make more sense just to create a new character? (like when does it make more sense to start a new franchise to tell the sort of story you want instead of grabbing an existing one and making it in to something completely different - DISCO S1 I'm looking at you?

[CharlesPhipps]

I think Superman's white skin and black hair are as revelant as James Bond being black haired.

Daniel Craig could pull it off.

Mind you, I admit full bias that the Superman equivalent is black in my books. I used Rosario Dawson as the model for his daughter.

How many of those can you change and still really have the same character? When does it start to make more sense just to create a new character? (like when does it make more sense to start a new franchise to tell the sort of story you want instead of grabbing an existing one and making it in to something completely different - DISCO S1 I'm looking at you?

I dunno, how many versions of Robin Hood have there been? How many of King Arthur? You have a black Superman in Kansas who grows up to be a reporter in Metropolis and marries black (or white) Lois Lane. He can fly, shoot eyebeamz, and punch people.

Jimmy Olsen was black on Supergirl.
Perry White was black in Man of Steel.

How much does being a white dude contribute? Not as a way of saying how much is different but how much is the same? We already have had Superman re-imagined as black multiple times, It's why we have Icon. The slightly stuffy conservative black lawyer Boy Scout who has difficulty dealing with the punk kids of Milestone.

Some characters have their ethnicity very important to them like Luke Cage. Other characters are less so.

Maybe it'd be a good change, maybe not.