Star Trek: Discovery - Season 4 (With Spoilers)

[CharlesPhipps]

It's soooooooo bad fanficcy, though. I don't think it can be handled well.

Better for her to be a friend of his or something from school.

If I was writing it, I would have either gone with "she's a human raised by Vulcans and that's enough to be interesting"

Or if it was an editorial mandate, I would have gone with Dawn from Buffy. "Her mother actually made sure she was found by Spock's family and time has changed as a result."

[McAvoy]

I don't see much wrong with Saru in Season 2.

The other race were predators that fought back against Saru's people then made them slaves.

Oppressed becomes the oppressor, destroys their history.

Very common story.

I agree. His backstory isn't that bad. I don't really recall a species like his in old Trek that was a prey animal that was not only sentient but also other sentient species would enjoy eating. And the species was never let to get past their... whatever its called.

[Worffan101]

I don't see much wrong with Saru in Season 2.

The other race were predators that fought back against Saru's people then made them slaves.

Oppressed becomes the oppressor, destroys their history.

Very common story.

I agree. His backstory isn't that bad. I don't really recall a species like his in old Trek that was a prey animal that was not only sentient but also other sentient species would enjoy eating. And the species was never let to get past their... whatever its called.

It's sooo stupid though. Human level intelligence nearly REQUIRES carnivory for lifeforms that are anything like vertebrates, it requires a certain body size, a long lifespan with extensive immature phase, some pressure encouraging the traits that we consider intelligence, and preferably high energy density food. Elephants are the only purely herbivorous intelligent lifeform I can think of on Earth, and they're three out of four (which makes them horrible food animals btw).

Saru's species basically only makes sense if you've never studied biology.

It's like that old analogy of Chuck's about sports where he talks about how the more you know about the subject, the less sense the writing makes.

[CharlesPhipps]

It's sooo stupid though. Human level intelligence nearly REQUIRES carnivory for lifeforms that are anything like vertebrates, it requires a certain body size, a long lifespan with extensive immature phase, some pressure encouraging the traits that we consider intelligence, and preferably high energy density food. Elephants are the only purely herbivorous intelligent lifeform I can think of on Earth, and they're three out of four (which makes them horrible food animals btw).

Saru's species basically only makes sense if you've never studied biology.

It's like that old analogy of Chuck's about sports where he talks about how the more you know about the subject, the less sense the writing makes.

Seriously? This is where you draw the line at Star Trek evolutionary biology? The idea that there's sentient herbivores? In a setting where there's psychic powers, glowing energy beings, beings that eat rocks like the horta, space amoebas, and more--Saru the guy descended from what amounts to gazelles is what breaks your suspension of disbelief? THAT'S the point it becomes stupid versus an exploration of different evolutionary patterns?

It's also ironic because I actually felt Saru's story lost a lot when they revealed that the Kelpians aren't herbivores at all but are only grazing animals so until their teenage years when they become predatory animals. Which the Ba'ul kill them at because the Kelpians were the dominant lifeform on their planet until the Ba'ul became better tool users at.

Or, otherwise summarized, "The Ba'aul were persecuted and hunted by the Kelpians until the Ba'ul invented guns."

[Worffan101]

It's sooo stupid though. Human level intelligence nearly REQUIRES carnivory for lifeforms that are anything like vertebrates, it requires a certain body size, a long lifespan with extensive immature phase, some pressure encouraging the traits that we consider intelligence, and preferably high energy density food. Elephants are the only purely herbivorous intelligent lifeform I can think of on Earth, and they're three out of four (which makes them horrible food animals btw).

Saru's species basically only makes sense if you've never studied biology.

It's like that old analogy of Chuck's about sports where he talks about how the more you know about the subject, the less sense the writing makes.

Seriously? This is where you draw the line at Star Trek evolutionary biology? The idea that there's sentient herbivores? In a setting where there's psychic powers, glowing energy beings, beings that eat rocks like the horta, space amoebas, and more--Saru the guy descended from what amounts to gazelles is what breaks your suspension of disbelief? THAT'S the point it becomes stupid versus an exploration of different evolutionary patterns?

It's also ironic because I actually felt Saru's story lost a lot when they revealed that the Kelpians aren't herbavores at all but are only grazing animals so until their teenage years when they become predatory animals. Which the Ba'ul kill them at because the Kelpians were the dominant lifeform on their planet until the Ba'ul became better tool users at.

Please stop replying to me. I have you on ignore for a reason. I don't want to see you blowing up my notifications, and I will not let you drive me away from here again.

Obviously, my opinion of the Kelpiens will never change because of anything you say and I find both backstories equally moronic.

[McAvoy]

I don't see much wrong with Saru in Season 2.

The other race were predators that fought back against Saru's people then made them slaves.

Oppressed becomes the oppressor, destroys their history.

Very common story.

I agree. His backstory isn't that bad. I don't really recall a species like his in old Trek that was a prey animal that was not only sentient but also other sentient species would enjoy eating. And the species was never let to get past their... whatever its called.

It's sooo stupid though. Human level intelligence nearly REQUIRES carnivory for lifeforms that are anything like vertebrates, it requires a certain body size, a long lifespan with extensive immature phase, some pressure encouraging the traits that we consider intelligence, and preferably high energy density food. Elephants are the only purely herbivorous intelligent lifeform I can think of on Earth, and they're three out of four (which makes them horrible food animals btw).

Saru's species basically only makes sense if you've never studied biology.

It's like that old analogy of Chuck's about sports where he talks about how the more you know about the subject, the less sense the writing makes.

Ummm the fact that elephants being herbivores and having large brains too, kinda kills your whole argument. Remember humans are the exception, not the rule in real life.

Brain size isn't dependent on what you eat but what you do, how you do it, in your environment, threats and a hundred other things that slowly change you from a small monkey like beings into hairless upright monkeys.

One of the theories out there why humans take so long to from infant to even teenager is the brain itself. The human brain is so large that even a brain of a child would be impossible for the mother to birth.

So you are basing what worked on Earth on a fictional alien species on an alien world.

[McAvoy]

It's sooo stupid though. Human level intelligence nearly REQUIRES carnivory for lifeforms that are anything like vertebrates, it requires a certain body size, a long lifespan with extensive immature phase, some pressure encouraging the traits that we consider intelligence, and preferably high energy density food. Elephants are the only purely herbivorous intelligent lifeform I can think of on Earth, and they're three out of four (which makes them horrible food animals btw).

Saru's species basically only makes sense if you've never studied biology.

It's like that old analogy of Chuck's about sports where he talks about how the more you know about the subject, the less sense the writing makes.

Seriously? This is where you draw the line at Star Trek evolutionary biology? The idea that there's sentient herbivores? In a setting where there's psychic powers, glowing energy beings, beings that eat rocks like the horta, space amoebas, and more--Saru the guy descended from what amounts to gazelles is what breaks your suspension of disbelief? THAT'S the point it becomes stupid versus an exploration of different evolutionary patterns?

It's also ironic because I actually felt Saru's story lost a lot when they revealed that the Kelpians aren't herbavores at all but are only grazing animals so until their teenage years when they become predatory animals. Which the Ba'ul kill them at because the Kelpians were the dominant lifeform on their planet until the Ba'ul became better tool users at.

Please stop replying to me. I have you on ignore for a reason. I don't want to see you blowing up my notifications, and I will not let you drive me away from here again.

Obviously, my opinion of the Kelpiens will never change because of anything you say and I find both backstories equally moronic.

Or you could ignore him and respond back. He can see your posts even if his replies are hidden to you.

[Worffan101]

I don't see much wrong with Saru in Season 2.

The other race were predators that fought back against Saru's people then made them slaves.

Oppressed becomes the oppressor, destroys their history.

Very common story.

I agree. His backstory isn't that bad. I don't really recall a species like his in old Trek that was a prey animal that was not only sentient but also other sentient species would enjoy eating. And the species was never let to get past their... whatever its called.

It's sooo stupid though. Human level intelligence nearly REQUIRES carnivory for lifeforms that are anything like vertebrates, it requires a certain body size, a long lifespan with extensive immature phase, some pressure encouraging the traits that we consider intelligence, and preferably high energy density food. Elephants are the only purely herbivorous intelligent lifeform I can think of on Earth, and they're three out of four (which makes them horrible food animals btw).

Saru's species basically only makes sense if you've never studied biology.

It's like that old analogy of Chuck's about sports where he talks about how the more you know about the subject, the less sense the writing makes.

Ummm the fact that elephants being herbivores and having large brains too, kinda kills your whole argument. Remember humans are the exception, not the rule in real life.

Brain size isn't dependent on what you eat but what you do, how you do it, in your environment, threats and a hundred other things that slowly change you from a small monkey like beings into hairless upright monkeys.

One of the theories out there why humans take so long to from infant to even teenager is the brain itself. The human brain is so large that even a brain of a child would be impossible for the mother to birth.

So you are basing what worked on Earth on a fictional alien species on an alien world.

Please read my ENTIRE post.

Also, domesticates, especially food domesticates, tend to be less intelligent than wild types. The chances of a species like Saru's evolving, while being used as cattle, is so infinitesimally small as to be effectively impossible.

[Worffan101]

It's sooo stupid though. Human level intelligence nearly REQUIRES carnivory for lifeforms that are anything like vertebrates, it requires a certain body size, a long lifespan with extensive immature phase, some pressure encouraging the traits that we consider intelligence, and preferably high energy density food. Elephants are the only purely herbivorous intelligent lifeform I can think of on Earth, and they're three out of four (which makes them horrible food animals btw).

Saru's species basically only makes sense if you've never studied biology.

It's like that old analogy of Chuck's about sports where he talks about how the more you know about the subject, the less sense the writing makes.

Seriously? This is where you draw the line at Star Trek evolutionary biology? The idea that there's sentient herbivores? In a setting where there's psychic powers, glowing energy beings, beings that eat rocks like the horta, space amoebas, and more--Saru the guy descended from what amounts to gazelles is what breaks your suspension of disbelief? THAT'S the point it becomes stupid versus an exploration of different evolutionary patterns?

It's also ironic because I actually felt Saru's story lost a lot when they revealed that the Kelpians aren't herbavores at all but are only grazing animals so until their teenage years when they become predatory animals. Which the Ba'ul kill them at because the Kelpians were the dominant lifeform on their planet until the Ba'ul became better tool users at.

Please stop replying to me. I have you on ignore for a reason. I don't want to see you blowing up my notifications, and I will not let you drive me away from here again.

Obviously, my opinion of the Kelpiens will never change because of anything you say and I find both backstories equally moronic.

Or you could ignore him and respond back. He can see your posts even if his replies are hidden to you.

I'm sick and tired of that troll showing up in my notifications. Yeah, I'm snappish, but there's only so much a person can tolerate, and I have a short fuse anyway. :/

[McAvoy]

It's sooo stupid though. Human level intelligence nearly REQUIRES carnivory for lifeforms that are anything like vertebrates, it requires a certain body size, a long lifespan with extensive immature phase, some pressure encouraging the traits that we consider intelligence, and preferably high energy density food. Elephants are the only purely herbivorous intelligent lifeform I can think of on Earth, and they're three out of four (which makes them horrible food animals btw).

Saru's species basically only makes sense if you've never studied biology.

It's like that old analogy of Chuck's about sports where he talks about how the more you know about the subject, the less sense the writing makes.

Seriously? This is where you draw the line at Star Trek evolutionary biology? The idea that there's sentient herbivores? In a setting where there's psychic powers, glowing energy beings, beings that eat rocks like the horta, space amoebas, and more--Saru the guy descended from what amounts to gazelles is what breaks your suspension of disbelief? THAT'S the point it becomes stupid versus an exploration of different evolutionary patterns?

It's also ironic because I actually felt Saru's story lost a lot when they revealed that the Kelpians aren't herbavores at all but are only grazing animals so until their teenage years when they become predatory animals. Which the Ba'ul kill them at because the Kelpians were the dominant lifeform on their planet until the Ba'ul became better tool users at.

Please stop replying to me. I have you on ignore for a reason. I don't want to see you blowing up my notifications, and I will not let you drive me away from here again.

Obviously, my opinion of the Kelpiens will never change because of anything you say and I find both backstories equally moronic.

Or you could ignore him and respond back. He can see your posts even if his replies are hidden to you.

I'm sick and tired of that troll showing up in my notifications. Yeah, I'm snappish, but there's only so much a person can tolerate, and I have a short fuse anyway. :/

He isn't doing anything remotely trollish. You two just have conflicting opinions which happens on forums. Surprise!