The Rise of Skywalker (Spoilers: Read at Your Own Risk)

[McAvoy]

Liea using the force was great, Luke having a character arc was great, Snoke getting killed so Kylo Ren, the character we care about, become the big bad is great. TLJ is great

I would have not been upset or surprised by Leia being able to use the Force. It was that Mary Poppins s ene that bugs me. Just no way around doing that scene without making it look silly.

Having an arc doesn't make it great. Making the arc make sense in the context of the previous trilogy and yes they could have done some fan service by showing him do some cool stuff but they didn't.

Snoke being killed off is just a scene to subvert expectations. That's pretty much that scene. You expect the big bad guy to live and somehow Rey to escape.

A better subversion of expectations would have been Rey doing Dark and Ren going back to being Ben.

Luke's confrontation with Kylo is the coolest scene in Star Wars, he manages to beat the bad guys without violence, perfect for a Jedi

Snoke dying is to make Kylo the big bad, becuause Snoke wasn't interesting and he was.

In what movie did a Jedi fight a big bad guy without violence?

That scene isn't that big a deal compared to the rest of the movie anyway. Some wish he really was there and there to show off what a Jedi Master with Luke's capabilities really can do. Instead we got nothing. But like I said thd scene isn't that bad.

Snoke isn't interesting because they literally did nothing with him with what, five minutes of being a hologram and five minutes of actual in person screen time?

That movie ended with the Kylo Ren losing two Rey twice already and he is supposed to be the big bad guy? No. Snokes death was done to subvert expectations that is all.

[thetrueelec]

Liea using the force was great, Luke having a character arc was great, Snoke getting killed so Kylo Ren, the character we care about, become the big bad is great. TLJ is great

TLJ's script is so awful I wouldn't use it as toilet paper. Leia lying through space is moronic. Luke being a cowardly crotch-tit sucking traitor who allowed trillions to die and whined when asked to help was insulting and him dying for no reason was a blatant middle finger to anyone who ever cared about him. Kylo Ren is an unsympathetic asshole who deserved to die and was impossible to take seriously as a villain because he got his ass kicked and humiliated too many times and they tried too hard to make him a good little boy who didn't do nothing. I hate that movie with every fiber of my being and when it comes to story and character, it fails amazingly hard on every level and I cannot name one thing I liked about it. It's a spiteful, hateful, asinine little piece of shit that never should have been made and it's clear Rian Johnson's nearly unrivaled arrogance was mistaken for talent. In fact, he is such an untalented, pretentious twat he deserves to be flipping burgers somewhere. It's one of the worst movies I have ever seen.

Amazing, everything you just said is wrong.

Thanks for proving everything I just said right. Here's a tip, having no way to defend the movie so you just post a quote from it; is obnoxious and makes you look dumb.

You know I'm right, you can't even conjure up any defense for that abortion of a film other than to quote it because the movie is so aggressive shitty but you'll defend it for some idiotic reasoning that is beyond me. You can't even properly defend it with anything other than vague statements and praise for the most hollow, soulless movie ever made, and your pathetic defense doesn't hold up under scrutiny in the slightest. Luke's final battle was lame and insulting, Kylo Ren isn't an interesting or intimidating character.

I don't personally know anyone who liked the movie. My cousin did, and then saw it again and admitted it sucked. None of my writing friends liked the movie, they were all appalled by it. So do yourself a favor, and just stop.

Really, you don't know anyone who liked the billion dollar critically acclaimed movie?

[thetrueelec]

Liea using the force was great, Luke having a character arc was great, Snoke getting killed so Kylo Ren, the character we care about, become the big bad is great. TLJ is great

I would have not been upset or surprised by Leia being able to use the Force. It was that Mary Poppins s ene that bugs me. Just no way around doing that scene without making it look silly.

Having an arc doesn't make it great. Making the arc make sense in the context of the previous trilogy and yes they could have done some fan service by showing him do some cool stuff but they didn't.

Snoke being killed off is just a scene to subvert expectations. That's pretty much that scene. You expect the big bad guy to live and somehow Rey to escape.

A better subversion of expectations would have been Rey doing Dark and Ren going back to being Ben.

Luke's confrontation with Kylo is the coolest scene in Star Wars, he manages to beat the bad guys without violence, perfect for a Jedi

Snoke dying is to make Kylo the big bad, becuause Snoke wasn't interesting and he was.

In what movie did a Jedi fight a big bad guy without violence?

That scene isn't that big a deal compared to the rest of the movie anyway. Some wish he really was there and there to show off what a Jedi Master with Luke's capabilities really can do. Instead we got nothing. But like I said thd scene isn't that bad.

Snoke isn't interesting because they literally did nothing with him with what, five minutes of being a hologram and five minutes of actual in person screen time?

That movie ended with the Kylo Ren losing two Rey twice already and he is supposed to be the big bad guy? No. Snokes death was done to subvert expectations that is all.

Jedi's in the OT were meant to be peacekeepers, Jedi aren't supposed to be action heroes.

With Kylo as the big bad, the question wouldn't be 'can Rey beat him' it'd be 'can Rey turn him back to the light' so her having beaten him twice doesn't matter because in a good movie it wouldn't be about fighting. Obviously there would be fighting but that wouldn't be how you end the conflict

[Winter]

Jedi's in the OT were meant to be peacekeepers, Jedi aren't supposed to be action heroes.

With Kylo as the big bad, the question wouldn't be 'can Rey beat him' it'd be 'can Rey turn him back to the light' so her having beaten him twice doesn't matter because in a good movie it wouldn't be about fighting. Obviously there would be fighting but that wouldn't be how you end the conflict

But why was that the question? Why does Rey want to redeem Kylo? Who is Ben Solo to her?

Rey knew Kylo for only a year. And in that year he killed someone she had come to see as a surrogate father, beat her best friend so bad that he ended up in a coma, tried to Mind Rape her during his interrogation scene with her, tried to kill her every time she rejected him and then spent most of their conversations gaslighting her and convince her that he was the only one who understood her.

Back in Attack of the Clones, Anakin had harbored a childhood crush on Padme but when she turned him down he respected her wishes and didn't try to make another advance on her for the rest of the film until PADME chose to admit her feelings to her when she thought they were going to die and figured it was now or never.

Leia only started to show real interest in Han after he came back to help destroy the Death Star and save the day and the two didn't begin their relationship until they had fought beside each other for 5 years. And with Luke and Mara, Luke had spent the whole Trilogy trying to befriend Mara as he saw the good in her via her loyalty to Karrde and her willingness to put her hate from him to the side to protect him. And Luke had to save Mara's life several times and help save Karrde from a mistake she made in order to gain her respect and after that the two had gotten to know each other for years before they started their relationship.

Rey and Kylo don't have any of that. Most of their interactions are them trying to kill each other (Rey's first reaction on seeing Kylo in both TFA and TLJ is to shot at him) and I've already covered what Kylo did or attempted to do to Rey. It's like Twilight or 50 Shades of Gray, most of the interactions one or both members of the couple are horrible to each other and the audience is meant to that this toxic relationship as true romantic love.

Switching series for a moment, one of the reasons Korrasami is my favorite paring is because the two have a HEALTHY relationship that grows naturally over the course of the series. Asami has always been willing to be there to help and Korra and Korra has always seen Asami as the one person who can truly understand her. By the end of Book 3 it had become pretty clear that the two were starting to fall in love with each other and by Book 4 it was obvious that the two had fallen in love and were the perfect match for each other.

By contrast, even when the two were just friends, Korra and Mako were always rather hostile towards each other with Mako trying to boss Mako around, Korra being straight up abusive to Mako for no real reason and Mako threatening to end his friendship with Korra because he thought she was trying to ruin his relationship with Asami.

Back when The Legend of Korra Makorra was fairly popular but by the end of Book 1 most fans had abandoned ship due to just how unhealthy and forced the couple was. By contrast about half way through Book 3 Korra and Asami had become the most popular ship in the series with only Varrick and Zhu Li rivaling them in terms of sheer popularity.

And going back over to Twilight, both were popular to their target audience, for a while. But the fanbase for both have pretty much all died out and are now just looking for the next big thing. That's not an insult it's just a fact. And my guess is the same thing will happen to Rey and Kylo.

[Deledrius]

Jedi's in the OT were meant to be peacekeepers, Jedi aren't supposed to be action heroes.

With Kylo as the big bad, the question wouldn't be 'can Rey beat him' it'd be 'can Rey turn him back to the light' so her having beaten him twice doesn't matter because in a good movie it wouldn't be about fighting. Obviously there would be fighting but that wouldn't be how you end the conflict

I agree. I think this is where both the PT and ST are missing a central "heart" element to the larger conflict. It's present but very weak.

[thetrueelec]

Jedi's in the OT were meant to be peacekeepers, Jedi aren't supposed to be action heroes.

With Kylo as the big bad, the question wouldn't be 'can Rey beat him' it'd be 'can Rey turn him back to the light' so her having beaten him twice doesn't matter because in a good movie it wouldn't be about fighting. Obviously there would be fighting but that wouldn't be how you end the conflict

But why was that the question? Why does Rey want to redeem Kylo? Who is Ben Solo to her?

Rey knew Kylo for only a year. And in that year he killed someone she had come to see as a surrogate father, beat her best friend so bad that he ended up in a coma, tried to Mind Rape her during his interrogation scene with her, tried to kill her every time she rejected him and then spent most of their conversations gaslighting her and convince her that he was the only one who understood her.

Back in Attack of the Clones, Anakin had harbored a childhood crush on Padme but when she turned him down he respected her wishes and didn't try to make another advance on her for the rest of the film until PADME chose to admit her feelings to her when she thought they were going to die and figured it was now or never.

Leia only started to show real interest in Han after he came back to help destroy the Death Star and save the day and the two didn't begin their relationship until they had fought beside each other for 5 years. And with Luke and Mara, Luke had spent the whole Trilogy trying to befriend Mara as he saw the good in her via her loyalty to Karrde and her willingness to put her hate from him to the side to protect him. And Luke had to save Mara's life several times and help save Karrde from a mistake she made in order to gain her respect and after that the two had gotten to know each other for years before they started their relationship.

Rey and Kylo don't have any of that. Most of their interactions are them trying to kill each other (Rey's first reaction on seeing Kylo in both TFA and TLJ is to shot at him) and I've already covered what Kylo did or attempted to do to Rey. It's like Twilight or 50 Shades of Gray, most of the interactions one or both members of the couple are horrible to each other and the audience is meant to that this toxic relationship as true romantic love.

Switching series for a moment, one of the reasons Korrasami is my favorite paring is because the two have a HEALTHY relationship that grows naturally over the course of the series. Asami has always been willing to be there to help and Korra and Korra has always seen Asami as the one person who can truly understand her. By the end of Book 3 it had become pretty clear that the two were starting to fall in love with each other and by Book 4 it was obvious that the two had fallen in love and were the perfect match for each other.

By contrast, even when the two were just friends, Korra and Mako were always rather hostile towards each other with Mako trying to boss Mako around, Korra being straight up abusive to Mako for no real reason and Mako threatening to end his friendship with Korra because he thought she was trying to ruin his relationship with Asami.

Back when The Legend of Korra Makorra was fairly popular but by the end of Book 1 most fans had abandoned ship due to just how unhealthy and forced the couple was. By contrast about half way through Book 3 Korra and Asami had become the most popular ship in the series with only Varrick and Zhu Li rivaling them in terms of sheer popularity.

And going back over to Twilight, both were popular to their target audience, for a while. But the fanbase for both have pretty much all died out and are now just looking for the next big thing. That's not an insult it's just a fact. And my guess is the same thing will happen to Rey and Kylo.

I never said anything about them hooking up, but to answer your question as who Ben is to Rey, he's someone that needs saving, and if I was writing IX Rey having to wonder if he was worth saving because of all his bad deeds would be an important part of the movie. She would eventually realise everyone can be saved and she should do it because she's a good guy

[Winter]

I never said anything about them hooking up, but to answer your question as who Ben is to Rey, he's someone that needs saving, and if I was writing IX Rey having to wonder if he was worth saving because of all his bad deeds would be an important part of the movie. She would eventually realise everyone can be saved and she should do it because she's a good guy

But films already did that in TLJ. There needs to be a Reason behind her wanting to save him besides "She's the hero" as in that case it comes off like the worst sort of romantic trope "He did countless horrible deeds and her me and the people I'm close to. But it's okay, I can fix him."

Going over to She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, Adora and Catra have a, shall we say, complicated relationship. They've known each other since they were children and it's fairly obvious that they're in love. But despite that their relationship is FAR from healthy.

Catra spends most of the first Three seasons gaslighting Adora and also hurting those around her to get back at Adora for living her and for always being second best to Adora. What Catra wants is to be seen as Adora's better and to have power so no one will ever hurt her again but Seasons 1 through 4 it just gets worse and worse and she keeps hurting anyone and everyone she can because she's scared of letting anyone hurting her.

And yet through the first three seasons Adora keeps trying to redeem her because she knows there is good in her and because of her love for Catra. But in Season 3, when Catra does something that leads to someone's death Adora realizes that she can't save Catra and as of this moment she has treated Catra as her enemy who she needs to save.

As of the end of Season 4 Catra Seems to have started on the path of redemption but it if that is the case, or if she has chosen to continue on her path of self-destruction then it will be because of the choices SHE Makes and NOT because someone wanted to fix her.

Rey, in both TLJ and ROS, has no reason to want to see the best in Kylo and has even less reason to want to see him redeemed. Adora, like I said, was raised with Adora, they've known each other since they were kids and clearly have romantic feelings for one another. But even Adora had to draw the line at Catra killing someone and nearly destroying the world and realize that she can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved.

Han tried to redeem Kylo and that was because he was his son and he had to try and save him. Kylo is just some twat Rey met and who felt he was entitled to have her and at no point does ANYONE tell Rey, or the viewer for that matter, how Kylo was once a good person.

Rey and Kylo's relationship is, IMO, badly written.

[McAvoy]

Liea using the force was great, Luke having a character arc was great, Snoke getting killed so Kylo Ren, the character we care about, become the big bad is great. TLJ is great

I would have not been upset or surprised by Leia being able to use the Force. It was that Mary Poppins s ene that bugs me. Just no way around doing that scene without making it look silly.

Having an arc doesn't make it great. Making the arc make sense in the context of the previous trilogy and yes they could have done some fan service by showing him do some cool stuff but they didn't.

Snoke being killed off is just a scene to subvert expectations. That's pretty much that scene. You expect the big bad guy to live and somehow Rey to escape.

A better subversion of expectations would have been Rey doing Dark and Ren going back to being Ben.

Luke's confrontation with Kylo is the coolest scene in Star Wars, he manages to beat the bad guys without violence, perfect for a Jedi

Snoke dying is to make Kylo the big bad, becuause Snoke wasn't interesting and he was.

In what movie did a Jedi fight a big bad guy without violence?

That scene isn't that big a deal compared to the rest of the movie anyway. Some wish he really was there and there to show off what a Jedi Master with Luke's capabilities really can do. Instead we got nothing. But like I said thd scene isn't that bad.

Snoke isn't interesting because they literally did nothing with him with what, five minutes of being a hologram and five minutes of actual in person screen time?

That movie ended with the Kylo Ren losing two Rey twice already and he is supposed to be the big bad guy? No. Snokes death was done to subvert expectations that is all.

Jedi's in the OT were meant to be peacekeepers, Jedi aren't supposed to be action heroes.

With Kylo as the big bad, the question wouldn't be 'can Rey beat him' it'd be 'can Rey turn him back to the light' so her having beaten him twice doesn't matter because in a good movie it wouldn't be about fighting. Obviously there would be fighting but that wouldn't be how you end the conflict

Ignoring that Obi Wan in the first movie New Hope literally dismembered someone at a bar of course.

If you mentioned PT then you may have had a point.

Kylo Ren may have been portrayed as the big bad guy but here is the issue: He comes off as a emotionally fragile person.

Needs to kill Han Solo to bring him fully into the Dark Side. Yet it doesn't really.

He throws a temper tantrum when Rey escapes. Like a child.

He gets beat by Rey who has absolutely no Force training. Yeah yeah she downloaded the training from him through their Vulcan mind meld in other sources outside the movie.

I won't touch on the whole Kylo versus over the top First Order Commander who will betray everything just to see Kylo fail...

He destroys his helmet after being verbally insulted by Snoke in a fit of temper tantrum. So his helmet was just his way of playing cosplay at Sith?

Oh for some reason he fixes it. Only to get rid of it. For some reason.

He gives off serious vibes of someone who really hates being friend zoned by Rey.

Rey has less trouble with the Red Guards than Kylo does.

Kylo Ren screams in a temper tantrum to kill Luke. I mean how can you take him seriously. At least he thumped over the top First Order Commander dude.

Kylo Ren tries to run over Rey with his TIE only to crash because of her. Nevermind he walks away scratch or burn free. Odd scene.

So he is distracted during his fight with Rey due to his mother dying. He has a vision of his father after he is beat and healed and now he is fully good. Or at least on the side of Rey.

The whole conclusion is that they had no idea with Kylo Ren. Is he the next Darth Vader? Is he in between? Or conflicted? He really never truly demonstrate big bad guy potential except in the first movie. Then they threw that idea out of the window.

[Mecha82]

He gets beat by Rey who has absolutely no Force training. Yeah yeah she downloaded the training from him through their Vulcan mind meld in other sources outside the movie.

Did you happen to forge that when Rey beat him in TFA he was wounded by Chewie's Bowcaster and he didn't even want to kill Rey so he wasn't even fighting seriously. When Rey got angry and started attacking him he was surprised by that. I mean that was really cear to anyone to see but I guess you didn't pay attention.

[ChrisTheLovableJerk]

Liea using the force was great, Luke having a character arc was great, Snoke getting killed so Kylo Ren, the character we care about, become the big bad is great. TLJ is great

TLJ's script is so awful I wouldn't use it as toilet paper. Leia lying through space is moronic. Luke being a cowardly crotch-tit sucking traitor who allowed trillions to die and whined when asked to help was insulting and him dying for no reason was a blatant middle finger to anyone who ever cared about him. Kylo Ren is an unsympathetic asshole who deserved to die and was impossible to take seriously as a villain because he got his ass kicked and humiliated too many times and they tried too hard to make him a good little boy who didn't do nothing. I hate that movie with every fiber of my being and when it comes to story and character, it fails amazingly hard on every level and I cannot name one thing I liked about it. It's a spiteful, hateful, asinine little piece of shit that never should have been made and it's clear Rian Johnson's nearly unrivaled arrogance was mistaken for talent. In fact, he is such an untalented, pretentious twat he deserves to be flipping burgers somewhere. It's one of the worst movies I have ever seen.

Amazing, everything you just said is wrong.

Thanks for proving everything I just said right. Here's a tip, having no way to defend the movie so you just post a quote from it; is obnoxious and makes you look dumb.

You know I'm right, you can't even conjure up any defense for that abortion of a film other than to quote it because the movie is so aggressive shitty but you'll defend it for some idiotic reasoning that is beyond me. You can't even properly defend it with anything other than vague statements and praise for the most hollow, soulless movie ever made, and your pathetic defense doesn't hold up under scrutiny in the slightest. Luke's final battle was lame and insulting, Kylo Ren isn't an interesting or intimidating character.

I don't personally know anyone who liked the movie. My cousin did, and then saw it again and admitted it sucked. None of my writing friends liked the movie, they were all appalled by it. So do yourself a favor, and just stop.

Really, you don't know anyone who liked the billion dollar critically acclaimed movie?

No one except pretentious blowhards on the internet or twitter checkmarks enjoyed TLJ. Literally every one I know thought it was awful. I asked some of my writer friends again and they admitted they didn't know anyone who liked it either. I even asked some of my younger cousins, Star Wars' primary target audience, and they all hated it because it was boring and the story didn't make any sense to them.