What is Your Opinion on The Last Jedi?

[Worffan101]

Doesn't help that Johnson doesn't really shoot the space battles with much panache. After Rogue One, this return to JJ-style boilerplate space shots kind of sucks a lot.

I also cannot stress how angry I am that they took Laura Dern, put her in purple hair and a beige evening gown, and told her to act like a tired soccer mom when she's allegedly the Admiral of a space fleet. That's not QUITE as bad as turning Rose from an interesting and sympathetic character into a boring love interest IN HER FIRST APPEARANCE IN THE FUCKING FRANCHISE, but it's close.

[Madner Kami]

Poe basically gained an inability to care about the lives of others when he's proving he's right... I mean The motherfucker got 80% of his squad killed in the opening battle!

Which was also probably the most facepalmingly awful battle in Star Wars. Sure, it's never been realistic but those "bombers" crossed the line of killing suspension of disbelief for me. Not a good thing at all that early in the film, although it wasn't the last.

Oh dear. That reminded me so much of the wierd space battles fought on pre-DS9 Trek (not that DS9 is the pinacle, but it went so far much further than your average show, except maybe B5), where ships just happen to sit in front of each other a couple houndred meters apart at best and slug it out, one phaser-bank at the time, when they have literally the entirety of the motherfucking universe to move through with weapons whose range can be measured in astronomical units and have a precission that can be described in 0.x mm per AU. But at least they had to deal with budget-constraints and technical limitations as an excuse or people just not being able to better understand what would go on in space, thanks to a lack of access to knowledge.

But hey, Star Wars can deconstruct both realism, fantasy and budget-constraints at once, by bringing carpet-bombing to a space-battle.

[CharlesPhipps]

Star Wars is never about realism but should always be about fun.

[Karha of Honor]

Star Wars is never about realism but should always be about fun.

I am okay with some dark SW stories. Half of SWTOR are dark side classes.

[Riedquat]

Star Wars is never about realism but should always be about fun.

Yes, but being blatant about that stuffs up the fun too. The way to concentrate on fun instead of realism is simply to not bother with anything that calls attention to the lack of realism. It's like technobabble - it's very rarely needed and all too often calls out that the writers haven't a clue what they're talking about.

[Darth Wedgius]

Never before has a movie I've never seen been so entertaining.

[MissKittyFantastico]

I've cooled a bit, but I still for the most part think fondly of it.

My impression coming out of the cinema was "Wow, did not see that coming" on a number of fronts. Luke felt a bit off-kilter at times but came together in the end, Leia was good, Rey vs Kylo was strong, Rose and Finn were okay but the detour to Planet Monte Carlo felt out of place, Poe vs Laura was interesting but maybe could've been more solid with another pass at the script, and my major beef with the film was that it didn't give a sense of what the First Order was, now that they've come out of the shadows and (allegedly) are storming the galaxy; until I reread the opening crawl on second viewing, I'd seriously been wondering if the entire First Order now consisted of Kylo and his one mega destroyer with its wing duct-taped back on.

Now, some of those feelings have been refined a bit. Mainly I get what I think they were going for with Canto Bight and the whole 'don't join' thing, although I still think (like Laura) that could've been polished more. I've kind of divided Rose up into 'that kiss' (which added nothing and should've been cut) and 'everything else about Rose' (which was pretty cool). Luke, Leia, Rey, Kylo, largely unchanged - Luke being off-kilter I still feel, but I think it's intention and serves the story. I still feel like it needed to show the First Order conquering the galaxy in some fashion - my first thought would be show them active on Canto Bight, to indicate they're everywhere, not just chasing SS Ramming Speed and friends, although that could undercut the notion of the wealthy elite facilitating wars without being affected by them.

Where I'm at now is that I think what I feel about Last Jedi is going to depend a lot on what happens with Ep IX. Last Jedi felt like a massive swerve from where it seemed like the trilogy was going after TFA, but we don't know the plan - I have to think even JJ "Let's just wing it" Abrams thought to devise some kind of trilogy sketch when he was handed Star Wars. If Last Jedi turns out to fit into the trilogy in a satisfying way, all good - even the lack of worldbuilding wouldn't matter if it's retro'd in later in a way that isn't jarring. If, though, (and I'd like to be proven wrong, but I do wonder) it turns out that Rian let off his landmines all over conventional expectations without a trilogy plan in mind, and it's left to Ep IX to pick up the pieces and wring some kind of satisfying three-film conclusion out of it... well, dick move Rian. Remains to be seen.

[Winter]

Poe vs Laura was interesting but maybe could've been more solid with another pass at the script,

In regards to this point, I want to go over the comic adaptation of The Last Jedi which I enjoyed a lot more then the film. In the comic Holdo's character is presented as a bit more of a jerk who acts very cold towards Poe and, In my most humble opinion, I actually preferred her in the comic vs. the film.

The reason for this, I think, is because while Holdo is more cold and harsh she's being very reasonable all things considered and the other reason I think I prefer her in the comic is that she acts less like Luna Lovegood and more like her own character. But I think the reason I like her a LOT more in the comic is that she does say she has a plan. Sure she doesn't say what the plan is but she at least says she has one and doesn't waste her time needlessly antagonizing Poe for no good reason.

For me, Holdo being more of a jerk actually endeared her to me a lot more then how she acted in the film. These are just my opinion and I find you're points to be very interesting as to why you enjoy Last. So thank you for sharing your opinion on the film.

[Wargriffin]

Poe basically gained an inability to care about the lives of others when he's proving he's right... I mean The motherfucker got 80% of his squad killed in the opening battle!

Which was also probably the most facepalmingly awful battle in Star Wars. Sure, it's never been realistic but those "bombers" crossed the line of killing suspension of disbelief for me. Not a good thing at all that early in the film, although it wasn't the last.

It also HEAVILY relies on the Space is an Ocean logic


youtu.be/wpBM-4pAX8U

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Poe basically gained an inability to care about the lives of others when he's proving he's right... I mean The motherfucker got 80% of his squad killed in the opening battle!

Which was also probably the most facepalmingly awful battle in Star Wars. Sure, it's never been realistic but those "bombers" crossed the line of killing suspension of disbelief for me. Not a good thing at all that early in the film, although it wasn't the last.

Oh dear. That reminded me so much of the wierd space battles fought on pre-DS9 Trek (not that DS9 is the pinacle, but it went so far much further than your average show, except maybe B5), where ships just happen to sit in front of each other a couple houndred meters apart at best and slug it out, one phaser-bank at the time, when they have literally the entirety of the motherfucking universe to move through with weapons whose range can be measured in astronomical units and have a precission that can be described in 0.x mm per AU. But at least they had to deal with budget-constraints and technical limitations as an excuse or people just not being able to better understand what would go on in space, thanks to a lack of access to knowledge.

But hey, Star Wars can deconstruct both realism, fantasy and budget-constraints at once, by bringing carpet-bombing to a space-battle.

I think the development of battle in Trek is supposed to resemble the development of field battle from pre and post World War I, where people before would line up and take turns firing. That was all abandoned in WWI where trench warfare was more common.