Is DS9's definition of the word "collaborator" warped?

[LittleRaven]

Well I never got any sense of cultural erasure with the Bajorans, which is a significant issue with colonizers, but there was a strong paternal drive as you're saying where they protrude their civilized culture unto the native force as a neoconservative superiority complex.

Eh? They literally ended the caste system which had dominated Bajor for thousands of years in the space of a few decades. The British didn't even do that to the Indians, and most people would say that Britain tried to remake Indian culture during their colonial period.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Well I never got any sense of cultural erasure with the Bajorans, which is a significant issue with colonizers, but there was a strong paternal drive as you're saying where they protrude their civilized culture unto the native force as a neoconservative superiority complex.

Eh? They literally ended the caste system which had dominated Bajor for thousands of years in the space of a few decades. The British didn't even do that to the Indians, and most people would say that Britain tried to remake Indian culture during their colonial period.

Right, I might be talking about a lack of something that's essentially not there in the first place. It is kinda apparent or perhaps inherent that they lost something, I guess I just expected it to be talked about in a different way.

As far as the Native Americans, specifically I had in mind cultural erasure of what was considered the noble savage. It's the remaking part that's still horrific as there were great steps needed to preserve languages that were lost for what was probably thousands of distinct tribes.

[LittleRaven]

As far as the Native Americans, specifically I had in mind cultural erasure of what was considered the noble savage. It's the remaking part that's still horrific as there were great steps needed to preserve languages that were lost for probably thousands of distinct tribes.

I was talking about the actual Indians, who still HAVE a caste system despite the fact that the British government ran their country for over 100 years. Now granted, as far as I know, the Brits never really set out to end the caste system, preferring instead to use it to their advantage, but my point is that most people would definitely accuse the British of attempting 'culture erasure' in India despite not ending the caste system in almost 100 years of occupation, while the Cardassians succeeded in annihilating the Bajorian caste system in just 50. So I'm at a loss as to you how never got any sense of cultural erasure in DS 9, when most of the episodes dealing with the aftermath of the occupation reference it pretty directly.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

As far as the Native Americans, specifically I had in mind cultural erasure of what was considered the noble savage. It's the remaking part that's still horrific as there were great steps needed to preserve languages that were lost for probably thousands of distinct tribes.

I was talking about the actual Indians, who still HAVE a caste system despite the fact that the British government ran their country for over 100 years. Now granted, as far as I know, the Brits never really set out to end the caste system, preferring instead to use it to their advantage, but my point is that most people would definitely accuse the British of attempting 'culture erasure' in India despite not ending the caste system in almost 100 years of occupation, while the Cardassians succeeded in annihilating the Bajorian caste system in just 50. So I'm at a loss as to you how never got any sense of cultural erasure in DS 9, when most of the episodes dealing with the aftermath of the occupation reference it pretty directly.

As I was just saying, despite how I felt about it, it's very likely that they did lose something. I just don't remember them talking about the culture itself that was lost.

The occupation has just recently ended by the time the show begins, and we become familiar real quick with their organized religion that already has a questionable lead figure trying to reformat Kako's schooling and creatively stay in power. And I don't remember her being like an uncle Tom or anything, she was disgusted when she found out that it was Dukat who was pretending to be a Bajoran. The point of all this being that they have the semblance of an established culture that's readily familiar with free practicing religion via the prophets even fitted with a corrupt Eminence. Now what I'm admitting now is that this doesn't necessitate a lack of cultural erasure, but I just kinda get the sense that the occupation was less of inside-out reformatting and more of a heavy handed hostile takeover.

I mean I kinda remember what you're saying about them having a caste system for thousands of years that was erased. I'm pretty sure Kira talked about it in her venting to someone or the other. But Idunno I guess it slipped from me.

edit: and there's also the labor camps too, so yeah not sure where I was going wrong.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

So yeah, I think the eminence and the organized religion just threw me off.

[LittleRaven]

But I dunno I guess it slipped from me.

And this is perfectly understandable, because the Occupation is only REALLY the focus of a dozen or so episodes out of a show that lasted 7 full length seasons. A LOT happens in DS 9, after all.

But yeah, if you pay attention the details, you learn that while the Bajorian religion HAS survived, it's pretty much the ONLY facet of Bajor that did, which is part of why religious leaders are so damn powerful in Bajorian society. (I mean, the Kai makes a medieval Pope look wimpy!) And of course, we eventually learn that despite the image that Kai projected as being a bastion against the Cardassian occupation, she was actually a collaborator herself, and while the show never spells it out explicitly, it's pretty easy to infer that the Bajorian religion was only allowed to survive by the Cardassians because they found it to be a useful tool for controlling the locals.