Thinking about Dune and its politics

[Beastro]

Something I never understood is why, between the first Dune and Dune Messiah, the Fremen started massacring people in Paul's name, and Paul was seemingly powerless to stop it. It's not like Paul has passed away and people are using his legend to further their own ends. Paul is still alive and the boss of them, so I never got a clear picture of why he couldn't just tell the rampaging Fremen, "Hey, knock that shit off."

Added to what Charles said in the last page, you also have a war going on on many planets across an entire galaxy without FTL communication. Even if Paul could control those he was immediately commanding on a single planet, that doesn't mean others would listen. These are a very militant group of ruthless people we are talking about here.

We live in a world where sieges throughout history more often than not resulted in soldiers running wild doing whatever they wanted even in spite of specific orders to leave besieged cities untouched and often ignored their leaders pleas to cut it out if they tried to intervene.

Example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(1527)

After the brutal execution of some 1,000 defenders of the Papal capital and shrines, the pillage began. Churches and monasteries, as well as the palaces of prelates and cardinals, were looted and destroyed. Even pro-Imperial cardinals had to pay to save their properties from the rampaging soldiers. On 8 May, Cardinal Pompeo Colonna, a personal enemy of Clement VII, entered the city. He was followed by peasants from his fiefs, who had come to avenge the sacks they had suffered by Papal armies. However, Colonna was touched by the pitiful conditions of the city and hosted in his palace a number of Roman citizens.

The Vatican Library was saved because Philibert had set up his headquarters there.[5][a] After three days of ravages, Philibert ordered the sack to cease, but few obeyed. In the meantime, Clement remained a prisoner in Castel Sant'Angelo. Francesco Maria della Rovere and Michele Antonio of Saluzzo arrived with troops on 1 June in Monterosi, north of the city. Their cautious behaviour prevented them from obtaining an easy victory against the now totally undisciplined Imperial troops. On 6 June, Clement VII surrendered, and agreed to pay a ransom of 400,000 ducati in exchange for his life; conditions included the cession of Parma, Piacenza, Civitavecchia and Modena to the Holy Roman Empire (however, only the last could be occupied in fact). At the same time Venice took advantage of this situation to capture Cervia and Ravenna, while Sigismondo Malatesta returned to Rimini.

We got a hint of the Fremen being horrible people by how they almost killed Paul and his mother for their water just because they happened to be wandering nearby. And at a later point, it's revealed that this practice is straight-up law amongst their people to kill strangers and take their water.

Not really. Those who do that are outcast, like the water stealers of Sietch Jacurutu. Paul and Jessica were taken by the Fremen because they entered one of their shelters uninvited, not because they wanted their water. Of course, anyone who died was dessicated to recuperate its water...

Water stealing among the Fremen is illegal, but I can't say about others that they find. I do know tribal law is very applicable to ones own tribe while othersiders mean nothing, and the Fremen are very tribalistic.

Regardless, the Fremen have the custom of treating all people encountered in the desert with friendliness. I forget the phrase but it's something like "In the desert all men are welcomed with open arms because everyone is saving each other from the desert".

You are missing a finer point there. He still is a Fremen and the moment he stops acting like a Fremen, is the moment when any Fremen can and will step forward and challenge his position, in order to take his water. Paul is trapped.

Which ties into the element of the books about the courses of history and the force exerted by people over individuals.

The Fremen wanted their conquest and would get rid of anything that stood in their way, including Paul if he caused enough trouble.

[Fianna]

I guess my issue is that there's no indication that Paul ever tried reigning in the Fremen's bloodthirsty rampage. He seems to just take it as a given that it's out of his power to stop.

[Madner Kami]

We do not get any insight in the Muad'Dib in between the events of Dune, where he was trying to avoid what was going to happen and Dune Messiah, where he has pretty much already resigned because he did not have the power to stop his vision from becoming true.

[CharlesPhipps]

I guess my issue is that there's no indication that Paul ever tried reigning in the Fremen's bloodthirsty rampage. He seems to just take it as a given that it's out of his power to stop.

The problem with being the Kwitz Haderach is you never make mistakes because you know how they'd turn out.

[Beastro]

I guess my issue is that there's no indication that Paul ever tried reigning in the Fremen's bloodthirsty rampage. He seems to just take it as a given that it's out of his power to stop.

It's not like he didn't have the power to read the future and see what would happen...