What is your Favorite Flawed Classics?

[ShoeUnited]

That's not worse. Ignoring that it's a SF trope, there could be creatures who react violently with water. Silicon based life would be affected differently than carbon.

So, that's actually less absurd than what I said.

[Worffan101]

I really want to know what happened behind the scenes for Andromeda. My main problem was the Kett plot and the colony plot felt like they were written by different people who weren't speaking to each other. It also had a terrible case of the Kett plot not really getting started until well into act 3, and the conclusion of that one renders the colony plot moot if I'm remembering correctly.

I also caught a terrible case of "I don't care about these people", which I have never had from a Bioware game before. I actively hated Ryder from the first minute; tried both sexes in case it was the voice, but nope it was the writing. Just a useless entitled little shit who I'm not totally convinced graduated highschool on their own merits but daddy got them an important job anyway. I thought Liam's gimmick was supposed to be that he had no discernable personality (it's Mass Effect, every crew has one) right up to his loyalty mission. A lot of the minor NPCs and all of the Krogan characters were fun, though. Peebee seemed fun but I think I made a wrong choice and locked off half her content since she stopped talking to me after building the drone.

Actually this is inspiring me to finally do a second playthrough. I played through it at release, took off work for it even, and never loaded it again. I know I hated DA2 on first play but loved it on later passes, same might apply.

I'm not going to call Andromeda a flawed classic, but it had three main problems IMO.

1. The kett are a boring and ineffective villainous faction, with a simple and cartoon-evil background. I would've preferred that they be a sort of weird bio-ascension cult where they add symbiotes and gene mods as they get older, with some types being older versions of others. And I'd have had a human character who voluntarily joined their thing and was exposed as such in-game.

• Ryder is an uninteresting character; unlike Shepard, who was a hardened take-no-shit badass with a badass backstory no matter what you picked, Ryder gets one backstory: Ensign Newbie. And it's not even well told.

• Several of the companions were annoying. Liam was alternately boring and an asshole tryhard, Cora was boring as fuck until her loyalty mission, and Peebee...I'll be charitable and say that she's a lot to handle. Only Drack (who is not as interesting as Wrex but is at least fun to be around and has a fantastic loyalty mission) and Vetra (my space wife who I will defend forever) are really good characters, Jaal is just kinda a decent dude who hangs around.

• From a structural POV the story is pretty weak. The Remnant backstory isn't as interesting as Sovereign, the Archon is a boring villain without the charisma or personal dickishness of Saren, and even after he captures you he STILL manages to be a boring monotone of boredom.

• From a structural POV there is not enough story, too much empty space. I should never, ever, EVER be doing a fetch quest in a Mass Effect game. Not after ME1 proved how intolerably boring that is.

• From a gameplay POV the combat is simply poorly balanced. It is slow and boring at higher difficulties, and a leisurely cakewalk on lower ones.

They had some decent ideas, but it felt way too video-game-y, for lack of a better word, and lacked a compelling antagonist or story.

[Madner Kami]

That's not worse. Ignoring that it's a SF trope, there could be creatures who react violently with water. Silicon based life would be affected differently than carbon.

So, that's actually less absurd than what I said.

That being absurd does not come from the chemical probabilities, but the idiocy of the plot-point of such an alien race invading a planet that is essentially a water-world. Imagine humans going to Venus. We know about the extreme pressure and the athmosphere's corrosive properties, yet we choose to go there naked. G fucking G.

Stuff

You aren't a wee bit overtly defensive of your favourite waifu, aren't you...

As for ME: Andromeda, gameplay is fine, premise is fine, characters are largely uninteresting, story is blegh. Once the game- and immersion-breaking bugs were removed, what was left was a middle of the road game with little strengths and many weaknesses. History has largely forgotten that it happened already.

[Rodan56]

You aren't a wee bit overtly defensive of your favourite waifu, aren't you...

Very droll, I'd have preferred if you bothered to actually address something I said rather than boil down my entire argument to "You're just a whinny fanboy." It's insulting.

Here's the truth, I'm annoyed at people downplaying a character with traits and aspects that I find under represented in games and dismissing her as a horrible person for no other reason than "She launched an escape pod and I'm angry at her because I don't like it when characters are imperfect and thus she needs to be expunged" is short sighted and stupid. I don't like how fandom seems to have an overriding obsessing with removing anyting that slightly offends it or refusing to allow characters to make mistakes. Moreso when said mistakes seem to be unforgivable when they hardly can even be called that. I find a lot of people who hated on Peebee for that scene had overreacted. No one can have fun anymore, everything has to be super serious, any infraction is unforgivable and this the character is deemed worthless. I find that an incredibly short sighted way of looking at things.

But if you prefer my explanation in shorter sentences here's the TLDR version:

People complaining about Peebee and the escape pod is on the same vein as people being pissed off at the "They Fly Now" joke in TRoS. It's stupid fanboy BS that has infected nerdom and I hate it. Let games and movies be fun again.

You didn't like the game, fine, but if you're just going to throw away everything I say and reduce it to me being a horny dork, then I would prefer you didn't bother quoting me at all, sir.

And while I'm here...

If she'd just up front said "we need to get down there now and this is the only way that'll do it, yes, I know it's bloody dangerous" it would be a completely different kettle of fish.

She does say that! More or less that's what she says and she owns up to what she did after the mission in any case! This hate hard on people have for Peebee is ridiculous. Now we're just ignoring what she says during and after the mission to further dismiss her character as terrible! It's pathetic.

And Peebee does change, her whole arc is about letting people in and accepting the chance to be hurt again. Honestly, we can't even be bothered to grant her that she has an arc now? We have to pretend she doesn't let people in and drop her walls now? Come on, this is just faceitious now.

Indefensibly wrong, please.

[phantom000]

Would you hate me if I called Star Wars a 'flawed classic?' The setting is unique and interesting but the story, even the original trilogy, is flawed.

Anyway, one of my favorite films would have to be Ralph Bakshi's Wizards.



Like Star Wars the story has its flaws but the setting and the design of the film are interesting enough that I can see past the flaws. I will admit it is not for everyone because I just really like 2D animation.

For a second choice...



Great setup, just no payoff.