General Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel discussion thread.

[FaxModem1]

I think the biggest problem with Xander is that for most of the series, he was Joss Whedon as a teenager, and wasn't really allowed to grow out from that. He was the heart of the team, but for a lot of the series, he wasn't allowed to escape the role of "Team Fool". Personally, I would have made him Giles's apprentice, and someone training to be a new Watcher. Still, Xander picking up a spare with a wrecking ball is a great moment.

[The Romulan Republic]

I think the biggest problem with Xander is that for most of the series, he was Joss Whedon as a teenager, and wasn't really allowed to grow out from that. He was the heart of the team, but for a lot of the series, he wasn't allowed to escape the role of "Team Fool". Personally, I would have made him Giles's apprentice, and someone training to be a new Watcher. Still, Xander picking up a spare with a wrecking ball is a great moment.

Some of the best Xander moments for me:

Season Two:

Chasing off Angelus at the start of "Killed by Death" (joint awesomeness with the other Scoobies).

Successfully calling Angelus's bluff through shear balls when he tries to visit Buffy in the hospital (also in "Killed by Death").

Showing up to back up Buffy in the finale battle in "Becoming Part II".

Season Three:

"The Zeppo", pretty much.

Season Six:

The Yellow Crayon scene from "Grave".

Edit: If you're read the comics, though, Xander does basically end up running Slayer HQ for a while.

[FaxModem1]

Edit: If you're read the comics, though, Xander does basically end up running Slayer HQ for a while.

Yes, comic Xander becoming Sergeant Nick Fury, like Buffy actually wearing body armor into the field, was what should have been done years ago, but it was most welcome.

[The Romulan Republic]

Not wearing body armour makes a certain amount of sense because:

a) Buffy is supposed to operate somewhat covertly, not drawing the attention of the public/authorities. This is less of an issue in the post-series comics, with magic openly and publicly acknowledged.

b) The Watcher's Council leadership are apparently a bunch of misers who would likely never spring for expensive gear that they didn't feel was necessary (and their definition of "necessary" is likely to overlap heavily with "traditional"), and Buffy could never have afforded it herself.

I mean, season six had Buffy working nights at a burger joint, likely on minimum wage, to support herself and her sister. Dickishness aside, that was a criminal misuse of the Slayer's time and resources, when the Council could have just written her a check for the work she was doing every month.

But then, even their own hit team was grumbling about how cheap they were.

[FaxModem1]

I mean, season six had Buffy working nights at a burger joint, likely on minimum wage, to support herself and her sister. Dickishness aside, that was a criminal misuse of the Slayer's time and resources, when the Council could have just written her a check for the work she was doing every month.

But then, even their own hit team was grumbling about how cheap they were.

That was mostly due to Willow and Tara living in her house rent-free, while also using up her insurance money and family savings. But yes, a monthly stipend from the Watchers Council would have greatly impacted her life for the better.

[The Romulan Republic]

Didn't they say that it was expenses related to her mother's illness/death that ate up a lot of it?

Which, for the US, is horrifyingly realistic.

Edit: It does occur to me that taking money from the Council would have a distinct downside, in that it would have given the Council further leverage over Buffy. Which they doubtlessly would have taken advantage of.

Did I mention the Council sucks?

[FaxModem1]

Didn't they say that it was expenses related to her mother's illness/death that ate up a lot of it?

Which, for the US, is horrifyingly realistic.

Edit: It does occur to me that taking money from the Council would have a distinct downside, in that it would have given the Council further leverage over Buffy. Which they doubtlessly would have taken advantage of.

Did I mention the Council sucks?

From 6x04:

WILLOW: Um ... Buffy, I-I know you're still getting back on your feet after...
BUFFY: Lying flat on my back?
WILLOW: Yeah. Uh, but there's some money stuff we're gonna have to talk to you about.

Cut to the living room. Buffy sits on the sofa looking at piles of paper all over the coffee-table. She has some more paper in her hands. She gives a disbelieving laugh and throws the papers down.

BUFFY: Okay ... so you're telling me I'm broke?

We see Tara and Willow sitting across from Buffy, with Dawn in the background.

WILLOW: Not yet, but ...
TARA: Money's definitely becoming an issue.
XANDER: As in your being almost out of it.

BUFFY: But I haven't spent any money. I was all ... dead and frugal.
WILLOW: I-I know, this comes as a bit of a shock after ... a bit of a shock, but ... it took us by surprise too.
TARA: Your mother prepared everything really well. She had insurance ... (nervously) life insurance.
XANDER: Which should have left you covered, but ... hospital bills.
WILLOW: Pretty much sucked up all the money.
ANYA: Which you're still hemorrhaging, by the way.
BUFFY: (confused) How am I doing that?
ANYA: No, not you, the house. Uh, see, this house, just sitting here, doing nothing, um, by itself costs money.
DAWN: (worried) So, what do we do?
BUFFY: Easy. We burn the house to the ground and collect the insurance. (Dawn continues looking worried) Plus, fire? Pretty.

So, hospital bills have been stacking up, but Tara and Willow have been living rent-free in Buffy's house, using her insurance money for their living expenses, and then thrust the problem onto her, continuing to live rent-free at her house. Note that throughout season 6, they never offer to pay rent or help with expenses. Buffy is saddled with everything, even though they are living there.

Like you said, Willow really was the worst friend in season 6.

[Rocketboy1313]

What does Willow do aside from go to school? Or Tara?
Is it that Xander and Anya are the only ones with jobs and they don't live in the house? Why don't they all live in that giant house and pool resources? How did Joyce afford that giant house?

[FaxModem1]

What does Willow do aside from go to school? Or Tara?

Witchcraft. That's it. They have no incomes. At least, none we see.

Is it that Xander and Anya are the only ones with jobs and they don't live in the house?

Yes.

Why don't they all live in that giant house and pool resources? How did Joyce afford that giant house?

Joyce was an art dealer, and she had alimony from her ex-husband. Sunnydale real estate prices are also insanely cheap because of all the deaths there.

As for why they don't live there? Don't know. No one seemed to give a shit when Xander was living with his parents, who charged him rent. The Scooby Gang, while great at fighting monsters, don't really seem to give a lick about each other's financial problems.

[Rocketboy1313]

I feel like I was bothered by this when I watched it back in 2000, but it did not stick with me as much as the snappy dialogue and meta-physics.