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Re: Star Trek: Discovery - thoughts?
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:41 pm
by GandALF
Morgaine wrote:
Yes but again, suicide bombing and racism/xenophobia/isolation are not logical. Not even if you are in fact superior to another species.
Reaching the conclusion that you are superior because of superior traits is logical, though that would be tempered by the fact that Vulcans aren't the leaders of the Federation.
Using that to therefore say inferior species must be expelled and the Federation must be abandoned is not logical, it's based on bias and resentment.
I'd expect a logic extremist to a) want to spread the ways of logic to as many as possible, with the understanding that Vulcans remain the superior mentors and b) to desire that Vulcans be the figureheads of the Federation instead of humans.
Now of course there can be Vulcan isolationists, because there have been, but they wouldn't be "logic extremists" because they would be using bad logic, or logic tempered by bias and bad ethics. And I doubt they would blow themselves up either.
Suicide bombings are logical, if you want to bring the maximum amount of attention to an issue or statement, that's going to do it. It is illogical to determine that the longer lived, physically stronger, more technologically advanced race with psychic powers is equal to humans, so the decision to join the Federation was either an ethical decision or a compromise that ignored the logic of the situation, which logic extremists would take issue with.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery - thoughts?
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:52 pm
by technobabbler
suicide bombings can be logical----an assassin throwing away the element of surprise and revealing himself to his victim and then giving exposition on why Sarek deserves to be assassinated isn't logical.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery - thoughts?
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:32 pm
by Morgaine
A suicide bombing is logical if your goal is terror.
It's not logical if your goal is assassination, because even if you take the target completely by surprise you still haven't confirmed the kill.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery - thoughts?
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:15 pm
by Karha of Honor
technobabbler wrote:suicide bombings can be logical----an assassin throwing away the element of surprise and revealing himself to his victim and then giving exposition on why Sarek deserves to be assassinated isn't logical.
The awesome visual we got out of it. Logical.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery - thoughts?
Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:16 am
by Meushell
I like the show. The first episode was...watchable, but it and the characters have improved.
I kind of wonder if they started out in the Mirror Universe, but got trapped in ours in the end of the last episode. I don’t think they are going with that though.
As for the Ash and Voq thing, that worries me. Star Trek has never taken the subject of rape seriously. Now that they are, I hope it’s not ruined somehow.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery - thoughts?
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:14 pm
by Yukaphile
I mean, is there any explanation given for why the Klingons have head-ridges again? If this is set in the Prime Universe, then they should have smooth foreheads. And worse yet, head-ridges that look nothing like the Klingons we've seen in the past.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery - thoughts?
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:06 pm
by TGLS
Yukaphile wrote:I mean, is there any explanation given for why the Klingons have head-ridges again?
Headcanon: Prosthetic foreheads.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery - thoughts?
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:20 pm
by Dînadan
Probably a case of the producers thinking that viewers wouldn’t recognise them as Klingons without the ridges, which just further adds to the ‘Why is this series set before TOS instead of after Voyager?’ confusion.
In universe...didn’t the Enterprise episode where the smooth foreheads get explained imply that it only effected most of the Klingons rather than all of them? If so maybe these guys are the handful that were lucky and were uneffected?
Re: Star Trek: Discovery - thoughts?
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:18 pm
by Yukaphile
And then they don't even do it effectively anyway. I heard somewhere the creators are claiming they belong to "different" houses than we've seen before, so I guess my question is has anyone seen even a single smooth-headed Klingon? Even just one? Because that argument would be a lot more convincing if we've seen even one prototypical TOS Klingon.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery - thoughts?
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:54 pm
by Deledrius
Yukaphile wrote:And then they don't even do it effectively anyway. I heard somewhere the creators are claiming they belong to "different" houses than we've seen before, so I guess my question is has anyone seen even a single smooth-headed Klingon? Even just one? Because that argument would be a lot more convincing if we've seen even one prototypical TOS Klingon.
That would go a long way toward fixing this apparent problem, IMO. Just show some TMP Klingons and some TOS Klingons in the background of the "assembled houses hologram" meeting and you can make this argument. So far, however, it's all been these new ones that don't fit in anywhere.
I think it comes down to the out-of-universe explanation that they needed makeup that would hide the actors' faces enough to pull off their "twist" with Voq/Ash. Everything else is just scrambling to cover for it.