Franchise woes?

[Makeshift Python]

I think of the original run from 1986-1995, which was rebranded DBZ in ‘89.

Ironically, the creator chose “Z” because it was the last letter of the alphabet, and was to symbolize the show on its final story... yet it continued on for another six years due to popularity.

[Yukaphile]

I'm still waiting his answer, because otherwise, this thread has gone way too off topic.

[Makeshift Python]

The 86-95 series, I said.

[Yukaphile]

I meant Madner Kami...

[clearspira]

Cell was the last time I truly enjoyed Dragonball. After that they watered down the Super Saiyan so that there was nothing unique about it and possessed a buttload of additional levels that visually all look alike and kind of all do the same thing apart from a different lock of hair and the characters going ''WOW! How much stronger is he, destroying that mountain a femtosecond quicker than he did before.''

At this point they ran out of good ideas. In the old days if Goku needed a power up he went on a quest for magical water, trained with Roshi, climbed Korin's tower, trained with Kami, trained with King Kai, trained under massive gravity, trained in a super time room. All of this on screen and weaved into the narrative. After that it was just ''oh yeah, Super Saiyan 3, I unlocked that off-screen. Oh, and apparently so did Trunks and Goten.''

Y'know, say what you like about Naruto, but the variation of different abilities and what they do to attain those abilities is far beyond anything later Dragonball did (and BTW, Boruto, there is an entry into the topic for you.)

[Yukaphile]

It's scary how much we think alike, clearspira. That said, any other "franchise woes" out there?

[Mecha82]

Cell was the last time I truly enjoyed Dragonball. After that they watered down the Super Saiyan so that there was nothing unique about it and possessed a buttload of additional levels that visually all look alike and kind of all do the same thing apart from a different lock of hair and the characters going ''WOW! How much stronger is he, destroying that mountain a femtosecond quicker than he did before.''

At this point they ran out of good ideas. In the old days if Goku needed a power up he went on a quest for magical water, trained with Roshi, climbed Korin's tower, trained with Kami, trained with King Kai, trained under massive gravity, trained in a super time room. All of this on screen and weaved into the narrative. After that it was just ''oh yeah, Super Saiyan 3, I unlocked that off-screen. Oh, and apparently so did Trunks and Goten.''

Y'know, say what you like about Naruto, but the variation of different abilities and what they do to attain those abilities is far beyond anything later Dragonball did (and BTW, Boruto, there is an entry into the topic for you.)

That is very accurate description about DB and DBZ. Funny thing is, Toriyama created power levels just to show how pointless those are but then he kept increasing those even more during DBZ after Namek arc and then DBS started with literal battle of gods. This escalation is what every shounen action anime and manga made after DBZ suffers from as well.

[CmdrKing]

I dunno, in some ways I think the DragonBall franchise is doing quite well. It was a few years ago now, but Battle of Gods' movie version is some of the best stuff the series has ever put out, one of the few entries in the series that actually does something new with Goku, Beerus is one of the best things about the franchise period right out of the gate, it's great stuff. And more recently I cannot heap enough praise on Fighterz, it captures a very specific sort of Dragon Ball that's just pure joy. I'm told the new Broly is also great although I haven't gotten to it.

Buuuuuut

Super had 5 (arguably six) major arcs and only one of them was consistently good and didn't completely botch the ending (I would love to just delete episode 67 from the series, it would immediately make that my favorite arc). I loved the buildup to the Tournament of Power, heck the reintroduction of Freeza FINALLY gave Golden Freeza the fanfare it deserved, but the tournament itself had a... uh, basically three just utterly spectacular visual spectacle fights, one or two clever episodes with the supporting cast, and a whoooooole lot of filler and probably the most boring Final Boss in the entire franchise. Not as satisfying to take out as Cell or Zamasu, not as climatic as Freeza or King Piccolo, not near as interesting a fight as Vegeta or Piccolo, just... there.

So I can't really say Dragon Ball is really in trouble as a franchise but god knows I understand when people say it is.

[Yukaphile]

No, he created power levels to show off how "unreliable" they are. Difference. Don't believe in Death Battle's claims that power scaling is impossible just because the Earthlings are unique. They were something never encountered before, since they had the ability to suppress their ki and thus move about undetected, or leave the enemy guessing. When you finally DO get an accurate power reading, it's going to be accurate. And it's why fighters shit themselves when they see somebody has a higher power level. It's an indication of power, and that is hard to gauge when the enemy can not only hide their power, but raise it at will. And yeah, I love DBS too. It's really shut up the haters hard.

[Makeshift Python]

My understanding is that both the Freeza and Cell sagas were at one point considered to be the final sagas, which is why you see a bit of repetition between the two.

When the creator was again persuaded/pressured into continuing the story, he tried a radically different and more comedic direction with Gohan becoming the focal character and his high school misadventures. I really dug a lot of this stuff and would have liked to see the story remain focused on Gohan, but apparently fans were upset with the absence of Goku, which is why we then got the Buu saga and Gohan was virtually sidelined for Goku’s return in another retread of the Freeza and Cell sagas.

You can literally see the series trying to change its direction with the new opening that replaced the one that stood for many years.



youtu.be/6REtSVg9OlU


Clearly it was recalibrated as Gohan’s show, and that didn’t last.