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Jonathan101 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:00 am I think that saying Bane isn't charismatic is the wrong way to put it, or taking things too far, but I do think it's kind of out of place and not really explained properly, mostly because they aren't really making a Batman film so much as a film with Batman in it.

You hit nail to the head. That is what Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy is. Crime movies that just happen to feature Batman. Then again IIRC he did admit that he isn't fan of comic books and that does really show in those. Which is part of why I don't share love that others have for those.

Jonathan101 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:00 am Basically, one of the problems with the movie is that it is playing around with ideas that are out-of-place, and it isn't really exploring them all the way either.

Usually movies get to the second film and panic realizing they need to create a n arch, but in this case it took until the third.

Honestly felt like they were grabbing anything and throwing it to see what would stick.

Mecha82 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:58 am You hit nail to the head. That is what Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy is. Crime movies that just happen to feature Batman. Then again IIRC he did admit that he isn't fan of comic books and that does really show in those. Which is part of why I don't share love that others have for those.

I'm kinda on the fence here. I'm not a comic book fan by any margin, yet I appreciated the early 90d cartoons and their loyal take on their respective superheroes. The second is the only one that really felt like it was trying to be something. I lamented the first because it ignored so much of Ras. Having him in a film and ignoring the Lazarus Pits I felt was criminal, and it really should have been him coming back in the third to reveal that.

As always, TAS did it better.

Also, if you've ever seen the James Bond film "The World Is Not Enough" from 1999, it's about a terrorist who no longer feels pain due to an injury, in league with a female mastermind that he loves who has issues with her father and poses as a benevolent business executive, who seems like the main love interest and even sleeps with James Bond but ends up trying to kill him, and to capture a heroic character they have a grudge against, hold them in a prison cell, and make them watch as they enact their plan to suicide bomb a city with a nuclear weapon. Bond also is told in the beginning that he has an injury that will keep him out of action but he ends up going into the field anyway, and at one point the other characters think he is dead.

And Christopher Nolan has said that he regrets that he's never got to direct a Bond film.

Just saying.

Well he is English.

Beastro wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:20 am

Jonathan101 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:00 am Basically, one of the problems with the movie is that it is playing around with ideas that are out-of-place, and it isn't really exploring them all the way either.

Usually movies get to the second film and panic realizing they need to create a n arch, but in this case it took until the third.

Honestly felt like they were grabbing anything and throwing it to see what would stick.

I'm more of the mind that they had a lot of the framework established and tried to stick with what they already had before changing it from a Joker centric story to someone else.

Nolan sucked out all the human decency of Batman out of the character, and that sophmoric Dark and Edgy Hot Take is being reflected in the public perception and lots of other popular media.

Fuzzy Necromancer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:17 pm Nolan sucked out all the human decency of Batman out of the character, and that sophmoric Dark and Edgy Hot Take is being reflected in the public perception and lots of other popular media.

Sir, how DARE you. jk but really this is the best live portrayal of Bruce Wayne hands down, if just for film sake.

In terms of structure where does this Batman come up lacking as far as decency? I ask this with consideration specifically of him intentionally being an asshole as a guise to throw people off his trail.

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:56 pm

Fuzzy Necromancer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:17 pm Nolan sucked out all the human decency of Batman out of the character, and that sophmoric Dark and Edgy Hot Take is being reflected in the public perception and lots of other popular media.

Sir, how DARE you. jk but really this is the best live portrayal of Bruce Wayne hands down, if just for film sake.

In terms of structure where does this Batman come up lacking as far as decency? I ask this with consideration specifically of him intentionally being an asshole as a guise to throw people off his trail.

I don't see that. To me Keaton is still best live action Batman and Bruce Wayne (both public persona and way he actually is). Bale as Bruce Wayne was far too obnoxious and wasn't subtle at all. Seriously Dark Knight Trilogy isn't masterpiece that Nolan fans like to make it seem like and it's way overrated for what it is. Only good part in all three movies was Heath Ledger as Joker. That's about it.

Mecha82 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:03 pm

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:56 pm

Fuzzy Necromancer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:17 pm Nolan sucked out all the human decency of Batman out of the character, and that sophmoric Dark and Edgy Hot Take is being reflected in the public perception and lots of other popular media.

Sir, how DARE you. jk but really this is the best live portrayal of Bruce Wayne hands down, if just for film sake.

In terms of structure where does this Batman come up lacking as far as decency? I ask this with consideration specifically of him intentionally being an asshole as a guise to throw people off his trail.

I don't see that. To me Keaton is still best live action Batman and Bruce Wayne (both public persona and way he actually is). Bale as Bruce Wayne was far too obnoxious and wasn't subtle at all. Seriously Dark Knight Trilogy isn't masterpiece that Nolan fans like to make it seem like and it's way overrated for what it is. Only good part in all three movies was Heath Ledger as Joker. That's about it.

Maybe on opposite day but not the rest of the days of the year.

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:10 pm

Mecha82 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:03 pm

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:56 pm

Fuzzy Necromancer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:17 pm Nolan sucked out all the human decency of Batman out of the character, and that sophmoric Dark and Edgy Hot Take is being reflected in the public perception and lots of other popular media.

Sir, how DARE you. jk but really this is the best live portrayal of Bruce Wayne hands down, if just for film sake.

In terms of structure where does this Batman come up lacking as far as decency? I ask this with consideration specifically of him intentionally being an asshole as a guise to throw people off his trail.

I don't see that. To me Keaton is still best live action Batman and Bruce Wayne (both public persona and way he actually is). Bale as Bruce Wayne was far too obnoxious and wasn't subtle at all. Seriously Dark Knight Trilogy isn't masterpiece that Nolan fans like to make it seem like and it's way overrated for what it is. Only good part in all three movies was Heath Ledger as Joker. That's about it.

Maybe on opposite day but not the rest of the days of the year.

You must be joking since you are using that silly expression.