Discovery Season 5

[hammerofglass]

No they told us what the mission is. It's to fly Discovery into deep space and abandon her
for decades with Zora still on board and completely isolated from friends and family (not an inferrence on my part it's explicitly stated) to set up some future play by the unquestionable and immortal Kovich that he didn't even want Michael to tell her about.

Edit: Apparently this was setting up a Short Treks episode I didn't watch. So it's a thousand years she's being put into solitary for.

[McAvoy]

No they told us what the mission is. It's to fly Discovery into deep space and abandon her
for decades with Zora still on board and completely isolated from friends and family (not an inferrence on my part it's explicitly stated) to set up some future play by the unquestionable and immortal Kovich that he didn't even want Michael to tell her about.

Edit: Apparently this was setting up a Short Treks episode I didn't watch. So it's a thousand years she's being put into solitary for.

Probably missed that part. I was starting to check out during the fast forward part. Kinda just waiting for the episode to end at that point.

[Nobody700]

So if I may ask, what was the big bads deal again? She had a crush on a Breen and so she was gonna... wipe out humanity for him to be revived?

[hammerofglass]

So if I may ask, what was the big bads deal again? She had a crush on a Breen and so she was gonna... wipe out humanity for him to be revived?

They were married and she thought the tech could resurrect him, she manipulated the Breen to help by offering them the tech because she cared about nothing else. Mad with grief basically.

Also it turned out that was never an actual possibility.

[CharlesPhipps]

To be honest, I found this episode to be deeply disappointing.

1. This story suffers from the "Raiders of the Lost Ark" problem of the fact the protagonists achieve absolutely nothing and there's a very real argument that it was all for nothing. A massive archaeological find is destroyed and "too powerful for us mortals" makes no sense in a setting as sci-fi heavy as Star Trek.

2. La'ak not coming back was a nice subversion but I'm a huge fan of the actor and bluntly I found myself far more invested in the Breen Primarch, politics, and infighting story than I was over the Progenitors.

3. People comment on the fact that DISCO had so much more to tell and for the life of me, I feel this season shows they were spinning their wheels. The Burn was the most interesting plotline for the entire series but they more or less just ignored it in Season 4 and 5. It just became another Star Trek with none of the new elements introduced.

4. "Sending Zora off to find Craft" was so incredibly awkward, I kind of wish they'd just left it non-canon or unaddressed for future writers. Craft is just some random guy in the middle of a storm and having it be her mission is now something that taints the love story as it's now all manipulation on Zora's part.

5. Daniels as a revelation is also something that feels like the worst of Picard Season 3's, "Hey remember X?" It doesn't really inform or change the character, IMHO.

[McAvoy]

So if I may ask, what was the big bads deal again? She had a crush on a Breen and so she was gonna... wipe out humanity for him to be revived?

Well at first she was willing to give up the technology to be free of whatever the Breen version of a warrant notice is along with her husband (which was revealed later in the season). Then it became a bit of manipulation on the Breen to resurrect her husband. In the end, the tech can resurrect the body but not the mind.

[CharlesPhipps]

I feel DISCO never really found its footing. It came close in Season 3 but they didn't want to engage with rebuilding a galaxy and democracy. It was all magically solved by finding a planet sized ball of dilithium. It forwarded family as much as the Fast and the Furious movies but refused to give any development to the crew. It said that Burnham was to a fantastic character but constantly tinkered with her so that we never got to know her. The constant "oh no, the universe is DOOMED" of every season stopped working after Season 2. It rarely introduced new elements and the few it did like the Kelpians and Ba'aul got overshadowed.

The show had its merits: no ST show has anywhere near the LGBTA representation and it blew them away all put together. It gave us a happily married couple in space, rare for any show. It never lost sight of Star Trek's "message" of peace and diplomacy. It was rarely boring. It gave us SNW. We had some admirals who weren't evil. Plus, Tilly, Book, Raynar, Stamets, Culper, and Saru were awesome. I still want a tardigrade plushie.

DISCO had a lot of flaws but it also had its merits.

B- overall.

I liked it more than ENTERPRISE but it put too much focus on spetacle and action when it could have functioned on its characters and setting(s).

[McAvoy]

To be honest, I found this episode to be deeply disappointing.

1. This story suffers from the "Raiders of the Lost Ark" problem of the fact the protagonists achieve absolutely nothing and there's a very real argument that it was all for nothing. A massive archaeological find is destroyed and "too powerful for us mortals" makes no sense in a setting as sci-fi heavy as Star Trek.

I agree. I think they wrote themselves into a corner with that. Left over billions of years old technology that can apparently create life or destroy it. At best they would recreate a Trek version of the ending of the Raiders where the Federation buries it in some highly classified warehouse. Probably some transporter buffer mechanism that Moll had. But put on a shelf. Probably placed next to a device that says the 'Preservers'.

I think they should have gone the route of Crusade if we continue the Indiana Jones route. Where Moll and Micheal have to make a choice.

2. La'ak not coming back was a nice subversion but I'm a huge fan of the actor and bluntly I found myself far more invested in the Breen Primarch, politics, and infighting story than I was over the Progenitors.

Tbh, I was expecting him to come back. It's nice that they didn't. Wish it was Moll who had to listen to that and not Michael. Afterall, she really hasn't trusted anyone throughout the season and it was Michael herself to trust her that her husband can not come back? After all that time? Even if she did decide to trust Michael herself and not Starfleet. She basically did a whole 'oh well'.

3. People comment on the fact that DISCO had so much more to tell and for the life of me, I feel this season shows they were spinning their wheels. The Burn was the most interesting plotline for the entire series but they more or less just ignored it in Season 4 and 5. It just became another Star Trek with none of the new elements introduced.

I never liked the Burn, but that was just a personal thing for me not liking that Utopian future and the concept of the Federation being fractured. But I do get it. But I agree. Honestly, if they were going to play that route with the Burn and the series still using Spore Drive, then maybe they should have done something with that. Instead, it kinda made Discovery into a superhero ship with that unique drive (superpower) no one has that can solve problems regular ships (humans) cannot do.

4. "Sending Zora off to find Craft" was so incredibly awkward, I kind of wish they'd just left it non-canon or unaddressed for future writers. Craft is just some random guy in the middle of a storm and having it be her mission is now something that taints the love story as it's now all manipulation on Zora's part.

I need to re-watch this scene. Who is Craft?

5. Daniels as a revelation is also something that feels like the worst of Picard Season 3's, "Hey remember X?" It doesn't really inform or change the character, IMHO.

Yeah. That was not needed. Also for the end of a series, you don't need to create a mystery like that unless there is a plan for it. Maybe just say he is a Metron. 1000 years since TOS afterall. The Progenitors tech was a test to see if humanity made the right steps to seeing the universe in a whole new way. Something like that.

[McAvoy]

I feel DISCO never really found its footing. It came close in Season 3 but they didn't want to engage with rebuilding a galaxy and democracy. It was all magically solved by finding a planet sized ball of dilithium. It forwarded family as much as the Fast and the Furious movies but refused to give any development to the crew. It said that Burnham was to a fantastic character but constantly tinkered with her so that we never got to know her. The constant "oh no, the universe is DOOMED" of every season stopped working after Season 2. It rarely introduced new elements and the few it did like the Kelpians and Ba'aul got overshadowed.

The show had its merits: no ST show has anywhere near the LGBTA representation and it blew them away all put together. It gave us a happily married couple in space, rare for any show. It never lost sight of Star Trek's "message" of peace and diplomacy. It was rarely boring. It gave us SNW. We had some admirals who weren't evil. Plus, Tilly, Book, Raynar, Stamets, Culper, and Saru were awesome. I still want a tardigrade plushie.

DISCO had a lot of flaws but it also had its merits.

B- overall.

I liked it more than ENTERPRISE but it put too much focus on spetacle and action when it could have functioned on its characters and setting(s).

We should create a new post about the overall review of the series and just let this be about season 5.

My biggest gripe about Discovery is that I have zero knowledge of bridge crew. Yeah I know we have other characters that are more fleshed out, which is fine. But they really did a poor job for the semi-regulars that we saw on that bridge. It's not like I needed whole episodes or side plots for them. Just something. The only one I remember is that reptile alien and it's only because of his appearance and voice. That's it.