Yukaphile wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:02 pm
Love the use of "Ma-Rey Sue." Though I'm curious if these people would apply Mary Sue to where it belongs when it's a male character? Because I've seen some male Mary Sues.
No, because otherwise Luke and especially Anakin would qualify.
Luke and Anakin are not Stu's. A) They both earned their abilities over YEARS of training instead of in a literal week like Rey and B) to say that Anakin - slayer of innocent children, strangler of wife, betrayer of his oath, torturer of prisoners and killer of millions doesn't have a few flaws is frankly the most hilarious thing I have ever heard. Literally, I am not making that up. You could post a Captain Flashheart clip on here right now and I would still laugh less than with what you just wrote.
Luke's "training" was like 2 days in the swamp with a muppet.
That's one of the things I like most about the new movies. They completely reject the prequel's depiction of Jedi training being something that took years for something much more in line with the original movies.
And if we limit it down to pure fighting skills, the movies establish Rey grew up in shithole and had to learn to fight from when she was literally a child. Her abilities are easily more justified (not that they had to be in the first place, it's a fantasy) than Anakin or Luke.
Officially a year has passed between ESB and ROJ which means that Luke had a year to practice the foundations of what Yoda taught him. So no, it wasn't just two days. And even then, even if we want to go with the silly 2 days notion, that is STILL more training than Rey received. And he didn't go on to defeat a room full of Snoke's guards effortlessly; he went on to get his ass kicked by Anakin/Vader who was clearly toying with him.
And I can tell you why Jedi training took years in the prequels: compare how unpolished Luke's saber technique is compared to Anakin and Obi Wan in their prime: that is the difference between formal training and no formal training. You cannot just pick up a saber and do all of that shit - unless you are MaRey of course.
Everything that Luke learned with Yoda, Rey learned with Luke. A basic, spiritual understanding of the Force to guide their way.
And Rey didn't defeat the guards. She defeats one, then almost gets killed while Kylo defeats the rest.
The over the top saber technigues I feel is one of the things the new movies is trying to forget. It just got silly, and I'm glad we've returned to something more grounded and slow paced. In the context of the original trilogy, Luke was clearly supposed to be a Jedi in his prime, not a novice. That's the bench mark the new movies are based of in terms of lightsaber skills.
And even then, there is clearly a world of difference between Rey's rough around the edges self thought fighting style and Kylo Ren's more practiced, traditionally trained approached.
OK, I'm game: what did old man Luke teach Rey exactly? From what I saw, most of her stay was sent trying to convince him to help, then he sat her down, and she suddenly in about ten seconds made a connection with Force that terrified Luke AKA the man who has gone head to head with Vader and Palpatine. She then beat him with his own lightsaber and then left. And I think you need to watch Empire again: Yoda actually walks Luke through it, not just sat him down and tickled his hand with a stick. Oh, and then Luke WENT AWAY FOR A YEAR AND PRACTISED. This last bit seems to be really hard for Rey defenders to understand.
And you feel that the Sequel trilogy has tried to get away form over the top saber moves, herm? Go and watch RLM or Maulers analysis of that fight. Its choreography is every bit like the Prequels, except the Prequels didn't have knives that magically vanish before our eyes so that MaRey wouldn't die. I don't remember the editor having the save Luke or Anakin - funny that.
Luke thought Rey the nature of the Force and how to connect with it, same as Yoda thought Luke.
Rey beat Luke? Seriously? I'm really starting to question whether or not you actually watched the movie.
The sequels fight scenes are lightyears above the prequels, imo. More raw and impactful.
RLM? Really? Their stick was funny 10 years ago, but now their on the same level as cinema sins. Congratulations, you caught an editing mistake after pouring over the scene frame by frame multiple times. Come back when you have a real criticism.
What About Rey standing over old man Luke's pathetic, crumpled body wasn't a win?
More raw and impactful? Nah.
So in other words, you don't like rlm therefore all of their criticisms are invalid? I don't need to come back and say anything else mate, you have proven yourself to be blinkered all yourself.
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:02 pm
Love the use of "Ma-Rey Sue." Though I'm curious if these people would apply Mary Sue to where it belongs when it's a male character? Because I've seen some male Mary Sues.
No, because otherwise Luke and especially Anakin would qualify.
Luke and Anakin are not Stu's. A) They both earned their abilities over YEARS of training instead of in a literal week like Rey and B) to say that Anakin - slayer of innocent children, strangler of wife, betrayer of his oath, torturer of prisoners and killer of millions doesn't have a few flaws is frankly the most hilarious thing I have ever heard. Literally, I am not making that up. You could post a Captain Flashheart clip on here right now and I would still laugh less than with what you just wrote.
Luke's "training" was like 2 days in the swamp with a muppet.
That's one of the things I like most about the new movies. They completely reject the prequel's depiction of Jedi training being something that took years for something much more in line with the original movies.
And if we limit it down to pure fighting skills, the movies establish Rey grew up in shithole and had to learn to fight from when she was literally a child. Her abilities are easily more justified (not that they had to be in the first place, it's a fantasy) than Anakin or Luke.
Officially a year has passed between ESB and ROJ which means that Luke had a year to practice the foundations of what Yoda taught him. So no, it wasn't just two days. And even then, even if we want to go with the silly 2 days notion, that is STILL more training than Rey received. And he didn't go on to defeat a room full of Snoke's guards effortlessly; he went on to get his ass kicked by Anakin/Vader who was clearly toying with him.
And I can tell you why Jedi training took years in the prequels: compare how unpolished Luke's saber technique is compared to Anakin and Obi Wan in their prime: that is the difference between formal training and no formal training. You cannot just pick up a saber and do all of that shit - unless you are MaRey of course.
Everything that Luke learned with Yoda, Rey learned with Luke. A basic, spiritual understanding of the Force to guide their way.
And Rey didn't defeat the guards. She defeats one, then almost gets killed while Kylo defeats the rest.
The over the top saber technigues I feel is one of the things the new movies is trying to forget. It just got silly, and I'm glad we've returned to something more grounded and slow paced. In the context of the original trilogy, Luke was clearly supposed to be a Jedi in his prime, not a novice. That's the bench mark the new movies are based of in terms of lightsaber skills.
And even then, there is clearly a world of difference between Rey's rough around the edges self thought fighting style and Kylo Ren's more practiced, traditionally trained approached.
OK, I'm game: what did old man Luke teach Rey exactly? From what I saw, most of her stay was sent trying to convince him to help, then he sat her down, and she suddenly in about ten seconds made a connection with Force that terrified Luke AKA the man who has gone head to head with Vader and Palpatine. She then beat him with his own lightsaber and then left. And I think you need to watch Empire again: Yoda actually walks Luke through it, not just sat him down and tickled his hand with a stick. Oh, and then Luke WENT AWAY FOR A YEAR AND PRACTISED. This last bit seems to be really hard for Rey defenders to understand.
And you feel that the Sequel trilogy has tried to get away form over the top saber moves, herm? Go and watch RLM or Maulers analysis of that fight. Its choreography is every bit like the Prequels, except the Prequels didn't have knives that magically vanish before our eyes so that MaRey wouldn't die. I don't remember the editor having the save Luke or Anakin - funny that.
Luke thought Rey the nature of the Force and how to connect with it, same as Yoda thought Luke.
Rey beat Luke? Seriously? I'm really starting to question whether or not you actually watched the movie.
The sequels fight scenes are lightyears above the prequels, imo. More raw and impactful.
RLM? Really? Their stick was funny 10 years ago, but now their on the same level as cinema sins. Congratulations, you caught an editing mistake after pouring over the scene frame by frame multiple times. Come back when you have a real criticism.
What About Rey standing over old man Luke's pathetic, crumpled body wasn't a win?
More raw and impactful? Nah.
So in other words, you don't like rlm therefore all of their criticisms are invalid? I don't need to come back and say anything else mate, you have proven yourself to be blinkered all yourself.
You mean the scene where Rey comes at him full tilt and Luke casually fends her off. Only for her to pull at lightsaber, and him to calmly look at her in disappointment?
I really feel like you and I watched very different movies man.
I have no problem with RLM. But like with Cinema Sins, I'm not sure I would consider what they do legit film analysis/criticism. More just incessant nitpicking.
They're good at what they do, and can be really funny, but if anyone actually uses there stuff as legitimate reasons a film is bad, it immediately to me says that person and I have vastly different viewpoints not just on Star Wars, but really film in general.
