Was Eddington the wrong leader for the Maquis?

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Yukaphile
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Re: Was Eddington the wrong leader for the Maquis?

Post by Yukaphile »

I think we all agree the treaty was a bad idea. That said, how the Maquis and the Cardassians handled it didn't make things better. They were just so consumed with wiping out each other, they couldn't see anything else.
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BridgeConsoleMasher
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Re: Was Eddington the wrong leader for the Maquis?

Post by BridgeConsoleMasher »

I don't really blame the treaty.
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Re: Was Eddington the wrong leader for the Maquis?

Post by CharlesPhipps »

There was no good answer really.

Part of why the Maquis were a good idea was the idea of testing the Star Trek Happy Endings by presenting a situation where someone got screwed no matter what and you couldn't fix it via technology. Land disputes are a great example of that in RL.

My inclination is that the Federation's hard stance on the Maquis made it worse, though. They should have tried to negotiate a settlement as all their position did was cause more of their own officers to sympathize with them.
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Re: Was Eddington the wrong leader for the Maquis?

Post by BridgeConsoleMasher »

I think the crucial point for me is the amount of contempt against Starfleet over the matter. Through and through it was always a bad decision by the settlers to be where they were at whatever point in time we're talking about. They knew it was close to Cardassian space when they settled, it was a nightmare for Starfleet personnel to deal with the Cardassians on any front, and the settlers from that point fought to stand their ground in spite of all that. Did anybody ever say anything about Starfleet giving not enough support against the sabotaging? Not that I remember. It was all just contempt for the treaty. At that very moment they turned on Starfleet. Not the Federation, they absorbed Starfleet personnel, escalating a quadrant wide conflict; and this matter I stress again and cannot enough.

Just fighting the Cardassians is the last thing I would blame them for. And the parent decision to stay there in the first place, I'm really fine with. Both these points together because they didn't know what the Cardassians were going to do. They had to fight back, and it was recognized by Cardassia to be Federation space in the first place. That is purely corrupt diplomacy on the Cardassia's part. And then there is so much I feel I can give them as far as when they actually became the Maquis. I mean, Picard sure did. It's totally understandable that they're fighting, but this was not at all a situation that they were thrust into. As far as being the innocent non-aggressors in this conflict, it's about as far away from that as is considerable. That being said, Starfleet was not just going to let them do what they were doing from within the organization obviously, you'd have to be stupid to think that. Then yeah you have Eddington.
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CharlesPhipps
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Re: Was Eddington the wrong leader for the Maquis?

Post by CharlesPhipps »

Mind you, both the Federation and Cardassians are expansionist Empires that have a lot of colonizing going on. The Cardassians were extending their border all the way to Bajor when they hit the Federation and then started attacking Federation outposts. It seemed that the Federation was not aware the Carassians were there when it built colonies if O'Brien is to be believed. The Cardassians also have no historical claim to these territories. They invaded them for the purposes of conquest and expansion.

It is interesting to compare this to the Gorn situation, though.
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Re: Was Eddington the wrong leader for the Maquis?

Post by Admiral X »

CharlesPhipps wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:47 pm The Federation is justified in arresting Marquis conducting crimes in their territory like arms trafficking, theft, and terrorism but there's a good question as to whether or not they are actively collaborating with a fascist government to oppress their people. If the Jews in Poland were buying guns to fight the Nazis, the US government would not be covering itself in glory by arresting them.
This. This right here. Picard specifically told those colonists that any calls for help to the Federation would go unanswered. So when the Maquis were formed so that the colonists could basically help themselves, since they'd been left on their own, it really sticks in my craw that the Federation then turned around and started helping the Cardassians stop their resistance.
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Beastro
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Re: Was Eddington the wrong leader for the Maquis?

Post by Beastro »

Independent George wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:22 pm I would point out that this evolution is pretty much par for the course for most revolutionary movements around the world.
The ruthless gobble them up. As Napoleon said "There are two kinds of people in revolution; those who start them and those who benefit from them." It's part of the reason why I hate the American love of calling their War of Independence a Revolution as it wasn't chaos unleashed (The other being their ideas weren't all that revolutionary, just evolutions of British government).

It's also the reason why such situation like the Syrian Civil War are unpalatable for people just as they were in Libya that led to collapse: The groups that appeal to the West simply don't have what it takes to survive, win and maintain the reins of power which leaves the alternatives being Islamists or Assad.
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Re: Was Eddington the wrong leader for the Maquis?

Post by Artabax »

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:07 am I mean, as of now, I'm kind of leaning on the Federation kinda fumbling things by not handling the Cardassians better. Picard knew that they were shady from the very first preconception of the Maquis with the Starfleet renegades. Then from there, was Cal the only Starfleet officer handling the colonist/Cardassian situation? More intelligence could have shown that the Cardassians were clearly violating shit.

Really though, the major conflicts always regarded Starfleet infrastructure being used to attack the Cardassians, and disdain for the Federation was mounted early on with the resistance for the treaty arrangement. From Maxwell to Cal to Eddington, it was a horrible situation for Starfleet to handle because it was always internal.

Picard and Sisko let Ro and Cal go essentially because they couldn't really argue with the resistance, but Eddington was indeed the one that took it too far, bombing any Cardassian he could get his sights on. He might as well have said that the only good Cardassian is a dead Cardassian.

All and all I don't really blame the Federation since they made it perfectly clear to the colonists the danger of staying on the planets.
And Sisko proclaimed the Zeroth Directive that the only good Maquis is a dead Maquis. And Sisko did his Javert shtick and genocided all the Maquis Planets.

"Peace" Treaty defines Fed must genocide all of Cardassia's enemies. As soon as Sisko genocided Maquis, Cardassia did not need the "Peace" Treaty anymore and declared War. What a surprise!!!
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