Sfdebris.net

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:30 am

McAvoy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:37 pmI think the question really is for people is whether this Allegory was planned/though of from the beginning or is this something that was thought up later on when the W Brothers became the W Sisters.

But considering the story was conceived and directed by two trans women, why would there really be any skepticism that the story wasn't about that on some innate level?

They were not trans women until several years after the last movie came out. Was it an innate thing they both or one of them were thinking of when they were still figuring themselves out back in the 90's? We don't know.

The concept of the Matrix though in the end; i can easily see how for example a male in the real world can be presented as a woman in the Matrix. In his mind as a male in the real world he is female and the Matrix translates that to female. Not that far of a reach.

McAvoy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:41 am

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:30 am

McAvoy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:37 pmI think the question really is for people is whether this Allegory was planned/though of from the beginning or is this something that was thought up later on when the W Brothers became the W Sisters.

But considering the story was conceived and directed by two trans women, why would there really be any skepticism that the story wasn't about that on some innate level?

They were not trans women until several years after the last movie came out. Was it an innate thing they both or one of them were thinking of when they were still figuring themselves out back in the 90's? We don't know.

And I really gotta ask if, within those several years, you hold consideration for the entirety of the motivation that resulted in them both transitioning was 'not' influenced by anything before this time period?

McAvoy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:41 am

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:30 am

McAvoy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:37 pmI think the question really is for people is whether this Allegory was planned/though of from the beginning or is this something that was thought up later on when the W Brothers became the W Sisters.

But considering the story was conceived and directed by two trans women, why would there really be any skepticism that the story wasn't about that on some innate level?

They were not trans women until several years after the last movie came out. Was it an innate thing they both or one of them were thinking of when they were still figuring themselves out back in the 90's? We don't know.

They didn't TRANSITION until several years after the last movie came out.

Fuzzy Necromancer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:46 am

McAvoy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:41 am

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:30 am

McAvoy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:37 pmI think the question really is for people is whether this Allegory was planned/though of from the beginning or is this something that was thought up later on when the W Brothers became the W Sisters.

But considering the story was conceived and directed by two trans women, why would there really be any skepticism that the story wasn't about that on some innate level?

They were not trans women until several years after the last movie came out. Was it an innate thing they both or one of them were thinking of when they were still figuring themselves out back in the 90's? We don't know.

They didn't TRANSITION until several years after the last movie came out.

Didn't come out is the most accurate. Various shitty gossip rags were posting stuff about Lana's gender identity back when the Matrix Reloaded was filming. Lily was forcibly outed by the Daily Mail, and apparently had no plans to come out until it was "come out or be outed".

It's like was Jodie Foster a lesbian back during Silence of the Lambs? Yes. Was she out? No, although there was plenty of speculation in the gossip rags.

That kind of stuff came to a head I thought after perez hilton.

I find the fact that both the Wachowskis are trans to be very interesting. Ive never heard of it running in families before. There is an interesting case study to be had here I think.

McAvoy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:41 am Was it an innate thing they both or one of them were thinking of when they were still figuring themselves out back in the 90's? We don't know.

Most people that are trans know it from a pretty early age, even before puberty. Them being able to DO anything about it or come out generally comes later though. For logistical reasons, most have to wait until at least after high school before they can make major changes in what they wear and how they identify, and longer still until they can *afford* to make physical changes.


This is different from figuring out your sexual attraction though. You might know you're trans at age 7, but you won't figure out if you're interested in boys or girls until you're 14. ANd figuring out what you're attracted to can also play a large role in figuring out your identity overall and that can obviously complicate things more and add a few years to figuring stuff out.

But generally you know you're trans pretty young. That's not a universal rule, but its common.

The concept of the Matrix though in the end; i can easily see how for example a male in the real world can be presented as a woman in the Matrix. In his mind as a male in the real world he is female and the Matrix translates that to female. Not that far of a reach.

That's not just a hypothetical, that was actually supposed to be the case. The character of Switch was supposed to be played by a man in the "real" world and a woman in the matrix. Hence the name. That was always the plan, even 22 years ago, so that was not a new thing or an angle they came to after the fact.

The studio balked at that though and told them no.

Similarly, the original premise was that the Matrix ran on humans because it used their brains as processors, which makes way more sense than "they used them as batteries". But the studios thought that was too intellectual, so...

clearspira wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:39 am I find the fact that both the Wachowskis are trans to be very interesting. Ive never heard of it running in families before. There is an interesting case study to be had here I think.

Kinda reminds me of the concept of shared dreams.

clearspira wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:39 am I find the fact that both the Wachowskis are trans to be very interesting. Ive never heard of it running in families before. There is an interesting case study to be had here I think.

While this is preliminary, and very far from being settled science, it appears that there’s a genetic component: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200205084203.htm

Humans generally don’t like to be referred to as “case studies”, but rest assured you’re not the first person to ask “is there a genetic component?”

Like homosexuality it may turn out to be a combination of genetic factors and womb environment (having a gay sibling raises your odds of being gay, having a gay identical twin knocks it up to ~50%)

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:55 am

McAvoy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:41 am

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:30 am

McAvoy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:37 pmI think the question really is for people is whether this Allegory was planned/though of from the beginning or is this something that was thought up later on when the W Brothers became the W Sisters.

But considering the story was conceived and directed by two trans women, why would there really be any skepticism that the story wasn't about that on some innate level?

They were not trans women until several years after the last movie came out. Was it an innate thing they both or one of them were thinking of when they were still figuring themselves out back in the 90's? We don't know.

And I really gotta ask if, within those several years, you hold consideration for the entirety of the motivation that resulted in them both transitioning was 'not' influenced by anything before this time period?

I do hold that which is why was it something that they did on purpose for the story or it was something they did without knowing they were doing it.

Not all gays or trans know from a early age. Some sort of figure it our later in life. Like something is wrong and they are not sure what it is because they are stuck in society norms.

In the end it doesn't matter. They did try to do that with the character Switch.