clearspira wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:28 pm
Genuine question because I actually don't know: The non-binary character, is the correct pronoun actually ''it'' or is that just a piss take?
To be perfectly fair, Madner Kami is German and maybe not familiar with the intricacies of English.
I think "they" is often used for non-binary people.
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clearspira wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:28 pm
Genuine question because I actually don't know: The non-binary character, is the correct pronoun actually ''it'' or is that just a piss take?
To be perfectly fair, Madner Kami is German and maybe not familiar with the intricacies of English.
I think "they" is often used for non-binary people.
It is "they".
And before Clearspira starts flaunting his ignorance about how "they" can't be used as a pronoun for a singular non-binary person: Yes it can. Because English is an made up language that evolves with the cultural. Just like how the word "gay" now strongly associates with homosexuality rather than the state of one's happiness.
clearspira wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:28 pm
Genuine question because I actually don't know: The non-binary character, is the correct pronoun actually ''it'' or is that just a piss take?
To be perfectly fair, Madner Kami is German and maybe not familiar with the intricacies of English.
I think "they" is often used for non-binary people.
It is "they".
And before Clearspira starts flaunting his ignorance about how "they" can't be used as a pronoun for a singular non-binary person: Yes it can. Because English is an made up language that evolves with the cultural. Just like how the word "gay" now strongly associates with homosexuality rather than the state of one's happiness.
It has changed for the worse. A book with the pronoun ''they'' being used as singular instead of plural would be a complicated mess to understand. And here's the difference between this and the evolution of the word gay: ''this'' is one of the most popular words in the English language - it is used potentially every other sentence. The word ''gay'' even at the height of its use was used once or twice in the book at most. You can read a book from the 1920s that says ''Matt and Jeff had a gay day'' and have it still make sense; you cannot read a book that fucks up plural and singular and have it make sense. That is just a fact.
This is not tolerance. This is making everything more complicated under the mask of tolerance.
Here's a fun exercise for those of you who still do not get what I mean: pick up a novel. Any novel. I'm sure you have one. Read it, and mentally transpose every usage of the word ''he'' and ''she'' with the word ''they'' and then come back to me. Gee, it really comes off as a book where the human race has been assimilated by the Borg doesn't it?
It's only so if YOU can't adapt to the language like anyone else can. Language is fluid, whether you like it or not. When first learning about the use of "they" for singular non-binary people it was for me confusing at first, but over time I no longer have any difficulty distinguishing between "they" as in plural and "they" as in a person. It all comes down to good concise writing.
It's like how we as a culture had to move away from using the pronoun "he/him" as a standard for speaking about a hypothetical person. At first we started using the terms "he or she"/"his or hers" for pronouns on hypothetical persons, but eventually shifted towards using "they" because that was much simpler than the clunkier alternative.
There is only one thing, JUST ONE THING that I cannot get over when it comes to the English language. It's when people use the term "I could care less", when they're really supposed to say "I COULDN'T care less", because if you COULDN'T care less about something that means you've reached the limit in regards to not having any concern. However, the former has become so ingrained in our language that at this point it now has the same meaning as the latter as far as many are concerned, even if it technically does not sound accurate. But I've heard so many intelligent people use "I could care less" so often now that it is what it is now.
clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:06 amHere's a fun exercise for those of you who still do not get what I mean: pick up a novel. Any novel. I'm sure you have one. Read it, and mentally transpose every usage of the word ''he'' and ''she'' with the word ''they'' and then come back to me. Gee, it really comes off as a book where the human race has been assimilated by the Borg doesn't it?
The f are you even talking about? I've done that my whole life.
Are you really telling me that it's unheard to be aware of a person without being aware of their gender, and that you resort to referring to someone as "it?"
Personally if I'm not sure and I don't know their name, I go with 'they' or 'them' terms, I've never thought to use 'it' to describe a person, I don't even do that with my dog.
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Link8909 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:48 pm
Personally if I'm not sure and I don't know their name, I go with 'they' or 'them' terms, I've never thought to use 'it' to describe a person, I don't even do that with my dog.
Same. 'Y'all' is also gaining traction with some folks as an alternative to 'guys', 'gals', 'fellas', etc. Seriously, who uses 'it' to describe a person?
clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:06 amHere's a fun exercise for those of you who still do not get what I mean: pick up a novel. Any novel. I'm sure you have one. Read it, and mentally transpose every usage of the word ''he'' and ''she'' with the word ''they'' and then come back to me. Gee, it really comes off as a book where the human race has been assimilated by the Borg doesn't it?
The f are you even talking about? I've done that my whole life.
Are you really telling me that it's unheard to be aware of a person without being aware of their gender, and that you resort to referring to someone as "it?"
You've done what your whole life? Read books where you've swapped out he and she with they? I literally don't know what you just wrote.
clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:06 amHere's a fun exercise for those of you who still do not get what I mean: pick up a novel. Any novel. I'm sure you have one. Read it, and mentally transpose every usage of the word ''he'' and ''she'' with the word ''they'' and then come back to me. Gee, it really comes off as a book where the human race has been assimilated by the Borg doesn't it?
The f are you even talking about? I've done that my whole life.
Are you really telling me that it's unheard to be aware of a person without being aware of their gender, and that you resort to referring to someone as "it?"
You've done what your whole life? Read books where you've swapped out he and she with they? I literally don't know what you just wrote.
I've used they for when the gender is ambiguous. I don't look at every single person on the street and start calling them they, nor am I resorting to some hypothetical where there is no such thing as gender anymore.
Last edited by BridgeConsoleMasher on Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Link8909 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:48 pm
Personally if I'm not sure and I don't know their name, I go with 'they' or 'them' terms, I've never thought to use 'it' to describe a person, I don't even do that with my dog.
Same. 'Y'all' is also gaining traction with some folks as an alternative to 'guys', 'gals', 'fellas', etc. Seriously, who uses 'it' to describe a person?
No one that I know of, this whole chain is linking back to what Kami wrote. I was merely asking what the correct pronoun is for a non-binary person and then expressed my dissatisfaction at having to change one of the most fundamental rules of grammar in order to appease a group of people who cannot think of their own word instead of co-opting an existing one. ''They'' is not grammatically correct when talking about a singular person unless you happen to have two people living inside your head.
And frankly, if I entered a room and said ''hey guys'' and then got some abuse for it, I would never associate with such a thin-skinned and literal-minded person ever again. It is a generic greeting, nothing more.
