Would you live in the Federation?

[The Romulan Republic]

Regarding religion in the Federation: In addition to the example FaxModem1 posted which suggests that Hinduism is alive and well, Bones makes Biblical references fairly frequently, I believe, and we have the (made up bullshit) Native American religion of Chakotay's, plus of course Vulcan and Bajoran practices being tolerated by the Federation.

For that matter... doesn't Worf practice Klingon beliefs?

While its likely that at least Earth/humans have a high rate of agnosticism/atheism in the Federation, their is no real evidence that religious/cultural diversity isn't tolerated, and quite a lot of evidence against that idea.

[Wargriffin]

I'd assume as long as your beliefs doesn't entail eating people/ butchering people

You can believe in Orgasm Fairies for all the average Fed citizen cares...

Then again with all the near Lovecraft like horrors out in the universe... and Q
I'd actually think belief in a higher power that is ultimately on your side would be alot more comforting when Science basically goes... IT has godlike powers I got nothing.

[Robovski]

...

Sadly I'd be the asshole trying to open the Warpstorm to Hell and burn it all to the ground... cause all my basic needs are met... I might as well be a supervillain!

Blood for the Blood God
Defile for She who Thrists
Papa Nurgle loves you

and... Join Tzeentch... We have ice cream

For you, your rations will be in the form of Soylens Viridians.

[Wargriffin]

...

Sadly I'd be the asshole trying to open the Warpstorm to Hell and burn it all to the ground... cause all my basic needs are met... I might as well be a supervillain!

Blood for the Blood God
Defile for She who Thrists
Papa Nurgle loves you

and... Join Tzeentch... We have ice cream

For you, your rations will be in the form of Soylens Viridians.

and you wonder why people turn to Tzeentch brand ice cream!

[Nessus]

Then you have the uncomfortable subject of colonization of the stars. Humanity, now equipped with the capability of planting themselves across the universe but something from the recent game Mass Effect Andromeda had me thinking about gays. In that story, several characters mention that for a colony to ultimately succeed, we pretty much need to make babies and colonists are screened for their fertility. Has it even been addressed if gays have a place in colonization because they can't alone produce offspring or are we in a future where artificial births are more commonplace.

Gay people are as biologically capable of having children as straight people. They may not be attracted to the opposite sex, but they still seem to want children with the same frequency. Both in the modern day and throughout history, gay people have been making arrangements to procreate, regardless of who they're attracted to, without needing technological help.

In the past this mostly meant agreeing to loveless marriages. Which was already common enough in straight people due to marriage often being more about political/financial advantage, or for essentially the same reason of securing an heir, so being gay doesn't substantially change the dynamic. In the modern day this takes the form of surrogacy and sperm donation.

In a future setting you could just have culturally accepted alternative family structures. The most obvious (relative to modern tradition) being a lesbian couple and a gay male couple forming a two-lobed nuclear family, where each couple acts as donors/surrogates to the other, and the kids grow up with four parents instead of two. When you consider all the different arrangements straight people have used throughout history and across cultures (and remember: many of these had little or nothing to do with actual attraction, or even mutuality; those things were considered bonuses, not essentials), the idea that a bias against a fairly specific modern arrangement should be considered even a slight impediment seems silly.

Gay people aren't less inclined or less able to have children. They just need the opportunity to develop their own culture(s) surrounding procreation and how it relates to family.

Sorry if that seems preachy or anything, It's just that this assumption that gay people inherently can't/won't procreate is one of the core pillars underlying anti-gay rights arguments, and it's kind of baffling to me that it usually goes completely unaddressed.

[Nessus]

They also picked an Asian girl because canonically, Demora Sulu serves on the Enterprise-B in Star Trek: Generations, is Sulu's daughter, and she was Asian. So, I think the interpretation is that she is Sulu's daughter, biologically. The Federation also does allow some tweaking with biology before a child is born, as we see with Torres and Paris's child, to remove a spinal problem while in utero. It's very possible that they used a surrogate, grew her in an artificial womb, or who knows what.

We don't know that and the controversy even from the original actor's perspective is that the movie made this change solely because he (Takei is a gay man in real life, so his famous character should be gay) as a matter of being PC. I highly doubt they picked Sulu's partner to be an Asian man and their daughter to be Asian solely because in the Prime Universe, Sulu had an Asian daughter who looked pretty much 100% Asian. From a lore standpoint, sure it might be possible that this Sulu being gay met another Asian who also is gay and they decided to have a daughter that also happens to be Asian without explaining the process of how it happened. It may be the common place for them, but for us in the past, it either needs to be explained if we point it out or not brought up at all. I think if you aren't a hardcore trekkie, which these new movies aren't designed for, you'd think. Did they just adopt an Asian girl to be their daughter on purpose?

My point is that for this movie, they made it a spot light more than it being an accepted common thing. Say a random character in the background is gay and they have children with them. As a background to the norm, you'd look pass it because it's the background. In this case, the writing was intentional. They wanted Sulu gay so we the audience sees him as a gay man first than just another awesome character. Otherwise, why bring it up? They didn't have Chekhov talking to a girlfriend or Bones, or Kirk having another fling.

It's not that, "does it matter or not" but more of the question...why bring it up? The question of anyone sexuality wasn't brought up in the 2 previous movies so...why here?

For one, JJ Abrams was no longer the creative lead for the Trek series, so they actually tried to make a Trek film this time.

As for why an established character? That's a bit of a problem with being limited to about two hours of screentime. Trek has needed an openly gay character for a LONG time, and the makers of Beyond wanted to have one. Why? Trek has always tried to be representative. Give everyone a voice, and show that they are equal in the eyes of the Federation. However, they're doing a movie, and not a TV show, which means they have only a couple of hours to provide characterization and/or development of your cast. Anything else can eat away at time you need for developing the villain, a place, the plot, etc.

If you're going to show a gay character, you have to show that they are engaging in a gay activity, because audiences assume that every character is heterosexual unless shown otherwise. It's been a condition of films for the past century, so audiences expect all characters to fit within that mold. So, if you want to have a gay character, your choices are: A. not do it at all, B. do it with an entirely new character, or C. do it with an existing character. Since Trek is already an ensemble, they already have quite a few characters, and adding a new one just for the sake of diversity would eat screentime, and might not be executed well. So they went with option C. Sulu's gay(or bi), married, and has a kid.

And it's used in the story to show a couple things. 1. Personal stakes for our characters when Yorktown is attacked. 2. more fleshing out of who Sulu is. and 3. Kirk gets a moment to reflect where his life is going, as Sulu has a family and career, and seem happy, while Kirk is alone and unsatisfied with his career currently.

Bear in mind also that on the Watsonian end, the Kelvin timeline is a forking one, not a "parallel universe". There's lots of indications that the future of this timeline will be increasingly divergent as time goes on, to the point where many of the later Prime characters we take for granted may plausibly never exist because their parents never meet, or die before they meet/have kids, or some other difference in events. Maybe in this world Picard is never born, because his granddad joined starfleet instead of staying at the family vineyard. Maybe 30 years on from the movies there'll be a 3 boobed catgirl who's a famous captain instead of a borderworld table dancer, because her parents got a lucrative job in the post-Kelvin incident shipyard boom instead of falling through the cracks.

I mean, just think of all the people who died on Vulcan, for one. There's no way in hell that can't mean HUGE changes/ripples.

We already have/had a Chekhov who's too young to be the same person as "prime" Chekhov, implying he's not the mirror/twin of prime Chekhov, but rather a trans-timeline genetic sibling. Basically due to whatever ripples from the the events that split the timeline, Chekhov's parents didn't decide to have kids until later (or didn't have the opportunity to accidentally conceive, or whatever), but they always planned that their first son would be named "Pavel", so there he is: same parents, same name, but different guy.

Same could be true of Sulu (or potentially anyone conceived after the the Kelvin incident) to explain why this one is gay while Prime Sulu is straight.

[FaxModem1]

Bear in mind also that on the Watsonian end, the Kelvin timeline is a forking one, not a "parallel universe". There's lots of indications that the future of this timeline will be increasingly divergent as time goes on, to the point where many of the later Prime characters we take for granted may plausibly never exist because their parents never meet, or die before they meet/have kids, or some other difference in events. Maybe in this world Picard is never born, because his granddad joined starfleet instead of staying at the family vineyard. Maybe 30 years on from the movies there'll be a 3 boobed catgirl who's a famous captain instead of a borderworld table dancer, because her parents got a lucrative job in the post-Kelvin incident shipyard boom instead of falling through the cracks.

I mean, just think of all the people who died on Vulcan, for one. There's no way in hell that can't mean HUGE changes/ripples.

We already have/had a Chekhov who's too young to be the same person as "prime" Chekhov, implying he's not the mirror/twin of prime Chekhov, but rather a trans-timeline genetic sibling. Basically due to whatever ripples from the the events that split the timeline, Chekhov's parents didn't decide to have kids until later (or didn't have the opportunity to accidentally conceive, or whatever), but they always planned that their first son would be named "Pavel", so there he is: same parents, same name, but different guy.

Same could be true of Sulu (or potentially anyone conceived after the the Kelvin incident) to explain why this one is gay while Prime Sulu is straight.

True, I just want to note that Demora exists in both universes. While I think that she's like Chekov, and is too old for the Demora Sulu from Generations, as this one was born in the 2250s/2260s. Doylian, this is just a nod to Prime Sulu's daughter. Watsonian, I think this is Sulu being affected by the changes in the Kelvin universe. Maybe the destruction of Vulcan made him change his priorities a bit, tie the know and raise a family much earlier than he did in the Prime universe. Maybe his spouse in the Prime universe was someone completely different. Who knows who the other parent of Demora was in the prime universe?


--------------
LGBT in general for the Federation:

That said, it should also be noted that LGBT isn't really a problem in the UFP. Behind the scenes, the show could have been a lot braver with representation, and actually had more, and at least more clear, LGBT characters. However, we do have canonical evidence for it being okay.

In DS9's 'Rules of Acquisition', Dax doesn't bat an eye that Pel, a Ferengi, is in love with Quark.

PEL: Quark really likes you. He talks about you all the time.
DAX: You know he once convinced me to go up to a holosuite with him. Turns out he recreated the bedroom I slept in as a child. He overheard me describing it to Kira. Of course, most of the details were wrong, but it was a very sweet gesture, up until he tried to kiss me.
PEL: That sounds like Quark.
DAX: I don't care what anybody says, I love him.
PEL: So do I.
DAX: You really do, don't you?
PEL: What?
DAX: Love Quark. Don't bother trying to deny it. I've seen the way you look at him.
PEL: Please, keep your voice down.
DAX: Does he know?
PEL: He doesn't even know I'm a female.
DAX: You're a woman?
PEL: Please lower your voice.
DAX: I knew there was something different about you, but I've never met a Ferengi woman before.

She IS shocked, however, that Pel is female, as Pel was disguising herself as a male to get through the Ferengi Alliance's sexist society. Homosexuals are viewed as acceptable for Federation citizens. In 'Rejoined', no one worries that Dax is dating a female, they're more worried about the scandal that she's dating someone from a past life, not that the person is female.

DAX: I don't know what to do, Benjamin.
SISKO: What do you want to do?
DAX: Throw myself at her. Profess my undying love and my complete disregard for Trill society. A joke Lenara made at the reception. Doesn't sound so funny anymore, does it?
SISKO: Not really.
DAX: You don't think I should pursue this, do you.
SISKO: No.
DAX: Okay. Why?
SISKO: Because I remember what Curzon used to say about reassociation. That it didn't matter whether he agreed with the taboo or not, because the price for violating it was too high. Exile.
DAX: I know what Curzon used to say, and I'm not Curzon.
SISKO: And you're not Torias either. You're Jadzia Dax and you have a responsibility as a joined Trill to never
DAX: I didn't come here to hear a lecture about my responsibilities.
SISKO: You came here for advice from a friend, and that's exactly what you're getting.
DAX: You're right. I'm sorry.
SISKO: I know this is difficult for you. I know how you feel about Lenara. But I want you to think about what will happen if you pursue this. If you're exiled from Trill, there will be no further hosts for your symbiont. When Jadzia dies, Dax dies. That goes against everything you were taught during your initiate training. You've told me again and again that each host is only a link in a chain and that the life of the symbiont, no matter what happens, must go on.
DAX: I know that and I believe in that. But I also know I love her, Benjamin.
SISKO: I know you do. If I were in your position I'd probably be just as ready to throw everything away for the person I love. But I would also want to be sure that I was ready to pay the price.
DAX: You're right. I need to be sure.
SISKO: But if you're sure, if this is what you really want, I will back you all the way.
DAX: I've lived seven lifetimes and I have never had a friend quite like you.

The topic of what gender someone fancies isn't even brought up. It's just something they go, "Ah, okay." about.

[Anduinel]

Bear in mind also that on the Watsonian end, the Kelvin timeline is a forking one, not a "parallel universe". There's lots of indications that the future of this timeline will be increasingly divergent as time goes on, to the point where many of the later Prime characters we take for granted may plausibly never exist because their parents never meet, or die before they meet/have kids, or some other difference in events. Maybe in this world Picard is never born, because his granddad joined starfleet instead of staying at the family vineyard. Maybe 30 years on from the movies there'll be a 3 boobed catgirl who's a famous captain instead of a borderworld table dancer, because her parents got a lucrative job in the post-Kelvin incident shipyard boom instead of falling through the cracks.

I mean, just think of all the people who died on Vulcan, for one. There's no way in hell that can't mean HUGE changes/ripples.

We already have/had a Chekhov who's too young to be the same person as "prime" Chekhov, implying he's not the mirror/twin of prime Chekhov, but rather a trans-timeline genetic sibling. Basically due to whatever ripples from the the events that split the timeline, Chekhov's parents didn't decide to have kids until later (or didn't have the opportunity to accidentally conceive, or whatever), but they always planned that their first son would be named "Pavel", so there he is: same parents, same name, but different guy.

Same could be true of Sulu (or potentially anyone conceived after the the Kelvin incident) to explain why this one is gay while Prime Sulu is straight.

Depending on how much weight one wants to give conditional canon, the differences between Kelvin timeline Sulu and Prime Sulu could be explained by circumstances similar to what you just suggested. Memory Beta has them listed as having the same father, but different mothers. So there's the possibility that Hikaru Sulu in the Kelvin timeline is who Sulu Prime might have been if his parents had made different decisions (or vice versa).

[BunBun299]

Regarding religion in the Federation: In addition to the example FaxModem1 posted which suggests that Hinduism is alive and well, Bones makes Biblical references fairly frequently, I believe, and we have the (made up bullshit) Native American religion of Chakotay's, plus of course Vulcan and Bajoran practices being tolerated by the Federation.

For that matter... doesn't Worf practice Klingon beliefs?

While its likely that at least Earth/humans have a high rate of agnosticism/atheism in the Federation, their is no real evidence that religious/cultural diversity isn't tolerated, and quite a lot of evidence against that idea.

When planning to marry Sisko, Cassidy mentions her mother would prefer her being married by a minister. I forget the specific episode.

In spite what Gene believed about things in the future, I'm convinced human religion is alive and well in the 24th century.

[MaxWylde]

I might live in the Federation, if it were in the 23rd Century before Kirk became an Admiral. Since then, the general I.Q. of the Federation seems to drop sharply to the point where I'd be hunted down as a sorcerer for employing common sense.

I have a ton and a half of issues with the United Federation of Planets, and if I were the head of state of a member world following the Dominion War, I would give my people serious thoughts about secession (depending on other factors, such as how close are we to other major factions, trade issues, etc.). If we couldn't secede, I would most certainly bring up the grotesque incompetence of Starfleet at the Federation Council. I'd also begin plans for building our own military force to protect my people and our interests from foreign threats. I'm certain other member worlds would have the same problems as mine would, and we'd certainly get together for some nice chats over beer.

There were a lot of things Starfleet could've done to prevent the kind of catastrophe the Dominion War presented. For starters, they don't think of themselves as a military organization. That's alarming because mindset is the most important thing that is vital to winning a war or preventing wars from starting in the first place. If your mindset is all wrong, it doesn't matter how well equipped and capable your organization is, you will lose a lot before you begin to win, all of it unnecessarily. A grown man like Captain Jean-Luc Picard, the equivalent of an O-6 in the US Military, who has at least 20 years of service under his belt, says that "Starfleet isn't a military organization, its purpose is exploration" with a straight face as if he believes it is shocking because you don't get to that rank and position without the commanding admiralty believing the same thing too (even if some might disagree internally).

This is like saying the Green Bay Packers aren't a football team, their purpose is making money. While the latter is true, if the Packers organization had that mindset, they'd begin losing more games than win, and over time they'd begin to lose money. After all, nobody, not even die-hard Packer fans, like to see their teams lose, and if they lose too much, they will begin to skip out on games. The mindset would alter everything about how the Packers do business, from recruiting and trades, to training and practices. They'd begin to look at Aaron Rodgers' considerable salary as an impediment; cut him and hire someone for, say, half, and we'd have so many millions of dollars for the bottom line, they'd think. Over time, even the players themselves, knowing that they have no chance of winning in a team like this, won't bother to play so hard and risk a career-ending injury before they can get traded to another team that wants to win. All this wouldn't happen overnight, but it would happen.

Imagine if the US Navy thought this way; that their purpose is exploring the seas and not defending the United States and her allies. That would definitely affect training, recruitment, acquisition and procurement of ships, weapons, equipment, etc., and you might begin to see the elimination of such units as the US Navy SEALs, ballistic missile submarines (after all, the Air Force has nuke missiles), whole carrier groups (what do you need an aircraft carrier for if you're trying to explore the ocean?), and so on. A military that cannot win battles is no longer a military, and that's a huge issue to bring up before the Federation Council.

After all, did not the members join for both mutual defense and trade? Must we surrender our defense for a combined service like Starfleet, who doesn't think their job is to defend the Federation, in spite of ample evidence to the contrary? What other military service exists in the Federation that is meant to check threats to it? Who are the Romulans, the Cardassians, the Dominion, or even the Borg worried about?

I would like to see a TV series post Dominion War, that sees the after-effects of it. I'd like to see a Federation of the 25th Century that's crumbling from secession from within, so that we get some interesting contrasts and conflicts erupt as a result. Will the Federation, like the Old Republic from the Star Wars prequels, try to use force to rein these wayward members in, despite volunteering to enter the Federation to begin with? I think it would be rather interesting.